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Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by lwhi on Friday February 04, 2011 @06:52PM (#2181890)
I'd want to be left alone - give one example of colonialism that worked out well for indigenous people, and I'll maybe change my mind.
Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by Helianthus16 on Friday February 04, 2011 @10:08PM (#2182330)
Ok.

India is now an "important" country. Burgeoning technologically and culturally, what it received from Britain was access to the intellectual firestorm of the Enlightenment. Hindu thinkers were involved in the formation of Universalism, the idea that all religions were different aspects of the same thing and could be united.

Of course, it cost them the pain of the Pakistan-India divide, the struggle of Gandhi, and a confusing cultural identity among a people that didn't necessarily have a singular cultural identity in the first place. But what price is too much?

South Africa paid the price, and is now among the most advanced of African nations.

Of course, most indigenous peoples just got royally fucked. Aboriginal Australians and the Maori. So I suppose your point in general holds.

Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by DufusM on Saturday February 05, 2011 @01:52AM (#2182632)
It is a bit presumptuous to assume that India or S.A. would not have made progress or exchanged "intellectual" information without a country sailing over and lording over it for a hundred years.

Disclaimer: I am an Indian.

Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by Helianthus16 on Saturday February 05, 2011 @09:30AM (#2183126)
I'm not assuming anything, I'm making an assertion--an assertion that could be right or wrong. In particular I am not assuming/asserting that India or S.A. would not have made progress.

I am saying that the effects of colonial rule are so unstable and so varied that it can be difficult to the point of meaninglessness to say a country would be "better" or "worse" without it.

The Bengal Renaissance is a documented movement, founded and driven by people exposed to Western thought. That doesn't mean the movement wasn't theirs, that they weren't the ones producing "intellectual" information. But they were in a different place because of colonialism than they would have been without, one where Indians went to school in Britain and where people were writing letters to each other across the ocean.

Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by DufusM on Saturday February 05, 2011 @11:21PM (#2184922)
Technically, I agree, but using this same logic, the effects of _any_ major historical incident are so unstable and so varied that "it can be difficult to the point of meaninglessness to say a country would be "better" or "worse" without it."
Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by kul on Saturday February 05, 2011 @02:20AM (#2182669)
You should look at India's share of world GDP before the British came and after they left.
Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by Helianthus16 on Saturday February 05, 2011 @09:38AM (#2183144)
GDP is one measure of a country's power. I should point out that measuring the GDP of India prior to British imposition is a little bit hairy since India was not really a singular political entity.

Besides, my point was never that India didn't suffer; my point was to illustrate some of the advantages of colonial rule and demonstrate _just how muddy_ the interference of a technologically superior culture can become.

Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by nitrogen on Friday February 04, 2011 @07:31PM (#2181992)
There are much less invasive options for contact than colonialism. Nobody said we have to move ourselves into some indigenous peoples' lands in order to offer them the chance to accept or reject a modern life.
Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by lwhi on Friday February 04, 2011 @08:01PM (#2182060)
But the effect is the same - their society would be absorbed, and probably forgotten.

It's like time travel - you can't go back because you don't know what kind of effects you'll have on the future. In this case you don't know what kind of effects contact will have on their (the tribe's) future.

Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by kiiski on Saturday February 05, 2011 @05:51AM (#2182886)
So how about Japan for example? Do you think contact with the west was bad for them?
Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by soapdog on Saturday February 05, 2011 @06:30AM (#2182915)
you're comparing different things, or do you think that a highly advanced CIVILIZATION like the japanese encountering the west is similar to a TRIBE of HUNTERS-GATHERERS.... damn!
Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by kiiski on Saturday February 05, 2011 @07:14AM (#2182947)
No. I was referring to messages by lwhi and nitrogen. As nitrogen said, there are less invasive options to contact them than colonization and there are cases where it is beneficial to the (in some ways) less advanced civilization. It might not have been fun for the japanese when the westerners first came there, but in the long run it was a good thing. And while the japanese culture was certainly changed, it was not destroyed or forgotten.
Re:Aerial footage of uncontacted Amazon tribe by lionhearted on Saturday February 05, 2011 @04:00AM (#2182785)
Hong Kong.