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Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by JumpCrisscross on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @09:43AM (#21813871)
> Why would any sane person be against unions?

I have no horse in this race. But as a counterpoint, pretty much everything in New York is more expensive due to heavy unionisation, particularly around construction and public services.

Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by xxpor on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @10:10AM (#21814191)
There's a lot of other reasons stuff is expensive in NY. Europe is heavily unionized and somehow they still manage to build subways at a lot less than $1 billion per mile.
Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by magduf on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @10:33AM (#21814473)
Unions are a big, big reason stuff is SO expensive in NY. They have to have 4 times as many employees doing construction as in Europe, for instance.

Europe doesn't have this problem because they have good unions. We can't have those in America. I really don't know why, but that's just how it is.

Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by tachion on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @11:08AM (#21814902)
This a perfect example of grass being greener on the other side of the fence ;) In some European countries I know of, unions are solely responsible for forcing the government hands into things like keeping around and subsidising beyond any sense and belief a dirty energy sources (coal mines and power plants for example) resulting in air quality killing more people than car accidents every year. Those unions won't stop at anything and are ready to and have in past organising violent riots on streets, until everyone around surrenders to their demands.
Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by shantly on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @09:56AM (#21814001)
My understanding is that the if-anything-heavier-unionized EU isn't experiencing the same rapid growth in (especially public) construction costs as the US has been for some time—still faster than inflation, but lower than would be explained by just PPP adjustments or COL vs. the US. Unions may not be helping but there's something else causing runaway cost growth in US public sector construction, in particular.
Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by take_a_breath on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @09:51AM (#21813945)
Could also be because of its density and GDP. Are there “cheap” alpha cities?

https://financesonline.com/10-wealthiest-cities-in-the-world...

Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by aaronm67 on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @10:23AM (#21814352)
https://nypost.com/2018/08/25/why-nyc-is-priciest-city-in-th...

Construction in NYC is far more expensive than anywhere else in the world, largely because of union contracts.

Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by itsgrimetime on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @10:12AM (#21814213)
This is an incredibly bold claim, can you cite this?
Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by uxp100 on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @10:33AM (#21814472)
Here is one article talking about subway construction costs in NY.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-...

It's not just unions, but here is a taste:

There are “nippers” to watch material being moved around and “hog house tenders” to supervise the break room. Each crane must have an “oiler,” a relic of a time when they needed frequent lubrication. Standby electricians and plumbers are to be on hand at all times, as is at least one “master mechanic.” Generators and elevators must have their own operators, even though they are automatic. An extra person is required to be present for all concrete pumping, steam fitting, sheet metal work and other tasks.

In New York, “underground construction employs approximately four times the number of personnel as in similar jobs in Asia, Australia, or Europe,” according to an internal report by Arup, a consulting firm that worked on the Second Avenue subway and many similar projects around the world.

Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by wool_gather on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @11:25AM (#21815115)
The "oiler" thing sounds stupid, sure, and overstaffing in general is a fair concern. But, devil's advocate, how much time and money would be wasted if an essential machine broke and there wasn't a mechanic standing around ready to spring into action? How many people would be seriously or fatally injured in a year without a helper on those "An extra person is required..." tasks?

I don't know the answers. Some of them legitimately may be useless sinecures, but it's worth keeping in mind that what looks like redundant waste is sometimes an important guard against some kind of failure. Just because it isn't always used doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile.

Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by uxp100 on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @02:44PM (#21817855)
The article directly compares the NY subway project to a french one, and finds that it was cheaper and had a quarter of the staffing. So since we've established time and money is not being wasted by not employing 4x the people, all you have to do is check and see if French public construction is more dangerous than the US, and you'll know if elevator operators and underground break room guards are important safety roles.

In the public sector, unions and engineering firms/management contractors are not at odds as they are in the private sector, they collaborate to rip off the public.

Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by take_a_breath on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @01:19PM (#21816717)
==it's worth keeping in mind that what looks like redundant waste is sometimes an important guard against some kind of failure. Just because it isn't always used doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile.==

Even more likely is that the redundancy exists because of something bad that happened in the past. That is how most regulation comes into existence.

Re:Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers o... by unreal37 on Tuesday December 17, 2019 @01:40PM (#21817012)
I think if there's a money saving argument, you wouldn't need to put that in the union contract.

Companies will want to save money and you don't need to force them to save money.

It's clearly a "job saving" argument and not a "money saving" one.