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Re:Climate talks break up with no agreement on carbon trading by ars on Sunday December 15, 2019 @12:37PM (#21797507)
This doesn't surprise me one bit.

Government is 100% of the wrong place to solve this. And that's because they can't no matter what they do it's impossible for them to do that.

This can only be solved in the research field with better energy sources.

And it can be solved in the finance field with cheaper energy sources.

Government regulation cannot solve this.

Re:Climate talks break up with no agreement on carbon trading by imtringued on Sunday December 15, 2019 @04:12PM (#21799018)
>And it can be solved in the finance field with cheaper energy sources.

In Germany the market prices for electricity go down but at the same time the residential rates go up massively. There are two reasons for that. Firstly coal plants can't throttle down but PV and wind farms get paid anyway through a surcharge. Secondly large industrial consumers are exempt from the surcharge. This means residential users are paying the electric bills of aluminum smelters, etc. In other words. The cheaper the electricity in Germany the higher the final price. Isn't that absurd?

The surcharge wouldn't be needed if there was a working CO2 tax or carbon trade system because all coal plants would be shut down and replaced by load following natural gas plants which only run when truly necessary.

Re:Climate talks break up with no agreement on carbon trading by Mirioron on Sunday December 15, 2019 @12:46PM (#21797587)
I agree with you that government regulation can't solve the problem, but I think that government has to be a part of solving the problem. They have to make solving the problem financially reasonable. We will need money to be spent on taking carbon out of the atmosphere. Companies aren't going to do that without a financial incentive.
Re:Climate talks break up with no agreement on carbon trading by tonyedgecombe on Sunday December 15, 2019 @02:07PM (#21798176)
I'm not convinced technology is going to help us. We have had amazing efficiency gains for aircraft but increased air travel has eaten all the gains and a lot more. We have built more efficient cars but wasted that by building bigger cars and driving them further. Insulation standards in homes have increased but we build bigger homes further from the centres. The list goes on and on.

The only thing that has made a real difference is switching from coal to gas in places like the UK. But even then gas heating in our homes is emitting more CO2 than any other sector.

Wind and solar are too intermittent to replace base load, there isn't enough cobalt in the world to build enough storage, there probably isn't enough uranium to switch everyone to nuclear.

I can't see people accepting a shift from an energy system based on stocks to one based on flow and the intermittency that comes with that. My neighbours go a bit bananas when the power is off for thirty minutes.

We really are fucked.