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Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by ehmorris on Friday December 13, 2019 @01:28PM (#21784045)
Better source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/genius-media-sues-google-claimi...

This is different from the story that came out this past summer, about Genius watermarking lyrics.

1. There’s a new watermark. After the first watermark got exposed, Google said they’d investigate, but Genius has caught them again.

2. Genius has filed an actual lawsuit.

Disclosure: I used to work at Genius

Also, a direct link to the legal complaint, which is a surprisingly fun read: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docInde...

Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by function_seven on Friday December 13, 2019 @03:25PM (#21785078)
For the first watermark mechanism, it's described in the complaint in paragraph #60:

> This watermark (“Watermark #1”) involved replacing the apostrophes in a selection of newly released songs with a distinctive pattern of curly (’) and straight apostrophes (').6 Genius set the 2nd, 5th, 13th, 14th, 16th and 20th apostrophes of each watermarked song as curly apostrophes, and all the other apostrophes straight. If the straight apostrophes are interpreted as dots and the curly apostrophes are interpreted as dashes, the pattern spells out “REDHANDED” in Morse code, as shown below. Genius designed Watermark #1 to be woven into the text of the lyrics of the watermarked songs so that, if the apostrophe pattern were to be found outside of Genius’s website, there would be no explanation other than that the lyrics were copied from Genius’s website, e.g., by using the copy/paste functionality or a computer program.

Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by alexcnwy on Friday December 13, 2019 @07:02PM (#21786801)
That's so clever - it's like an intellectual property honeypot.

It reminds me of "trap streets" mapmakers add to their maps to "trap" potential copyright violators: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap_street

Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by katzgrau on Friday December 13, 2019 @05:06PM (#21786029)
Ah, pretty clever. The REDHANDED phrase seems much more likely to convince a jury
Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by crazypyro on Friday December 13, 2019 @03:16PM (#21785004)
So Genius gets people to transcribe the lyrics mostly for free and then sells them to other companies for a lot of money.

Google found someone to provide lyrics and that company allegedly scraps Genius for cheaper than Genius charges for direct access.

So this is basically a continuation of the on-going question of whether scraping is legal? That's my basic understanding from reading the complaint. I'm also not sure why Google is at fault, except for a bunch of ranting about the Information Box stealing their business.

Guess there's also the attempt to try to enforce Genius' ToS...

Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by jszymborski on Friday December 13, 2019 @03:19PM (#21785029)
Scraping is one thing, redistributing and republishing is another. In a world where scraping is legally protected, displaying Genius lyrics in a Google infobox could still be illegal without a prior agreement on the basis of copyright. There's an argument for "curation of facts", etc...
Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by dennnis on Friday December 13, 2019 @03:35PM (#21785179)
Seems all moot since it's not their intellectual property in the first place... as in the artist would own the lyrics?
Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by edmundsauto on Friday December 13, 2019 @03:55PM (#21785353)
It looks more like a ToS claim; they aren't claiming to own the lyrics. They aren't objecting to Google scraping their site for the index -- they object to Google/LyricFind scraping the lyrics, removing hidden watermarks to prove provenance, and displaying the lyrics in whole on SERPs, without attribution.

The removal of watermarks, after repeated contacts and the WSJ article, indicate that Google/LyricFind acted in bad faith.

The best part is they encoded the watermark so that Watermark #1 spelled out REDHANDED and Watermark #2 spelled out GENIUS, using a pretty clever method that survived multiple data transfers/transformations.

Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by crazypyro on Friday December 13, 2019 @04:29PM (#21785701)
I mean, from my reading of the complaint, the waterproofing method was rather crude. They just simply changed either the apostrophe character or the space character to different characters that are visually the same.

Any system that wasn't actively trying to clean up "trouble" characters would leave it alone.

Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by chipperyman573 on Friday December 13, 2019 @04:21PM (#21785625)
If the watermarks are just text oddities, wouldn't it make sense that they were removed during some sanitization process?
Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by edmundsauto on Friday December 13, 2019 @04:24PM (#21785658)
They weren't removed at first - that's how Genius confirmed the lyrics were being lifted. They were only removed after the WSJ article.

Then Genius embedded a second watermarking scheme, and -- drumroll! -- Google's results only removed one of the two sets (the ones they knew about).

Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by gpm on Friday December 13, 2019 @04:36PM (#21785767)
Ok - but what's the issue with that?

I don't think anyone is debating at this whether or not Google was in fact copying the genius lyrics, just whether or not that was in fact breach of contract or otherwise a violation of the law.

Changing fake apostrophes to real apostrophes after they found out their (in their mind legally acquired) data had them is just plain sensible, fake apostrophes break functionality like search for users (both ctrl-f and possibly more sophisticated search engines like google.com). They add edge cases to any software that wants to use them for text to speech or whatever. And so on. Literally the only use case fake apostrophes don't impact by at least adding an edge case is humans reading song lyrics that they have already found.

Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by Shakahs on Friday December 13, 2019 @07:20PM (#21786891)
The issue is intent, did they remove the watermark as a matter of input sanitization, or did they remove it to conceal their behavior. Genius claims it was the latter.
Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by unreal37 on Friday December 13, 2019 @03:33PM (#21785164)
Genius actually licenses the lyrics from the music publishers.

The first line of your comment is accusing them of something that they don't do.

Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by crazypyro on Friday December 13, 2019 @04:32PM (#21785725)
I didn't accuse them of anything. I was re-stating what they themselves wrote in their complaint.

Yes, Genius licenses the lyrics, but they often aren't provided the lyrics when they purchase a license. This is where the community comes in... FWIW, Google and the other target of the complaint have the same license from these music publishers.

This is all spelled out clearly in Genius' complaint.

Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by criddell on Friday December 13, 2019 @03:42PM (#21785254)
And didn't LyricFind claim that the lyrics they licensed were scraped from Genius by the publisher?
Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by FireBeyond on Friday December 13, 2019 @03:15PM (#21784993)
> 1. There’s a new watermark. After the first watermark got exposed, Google said they’d investigate, but Genius has caught them again.

After that first watermark, either Google, Lyricfind or both took steps to 'un-watermark' the lyrics (once they knew what to look for), but kept doing it unabated, as Genius showed when they used another watermark that they didn't reveal (pretty sneaky, with Unicode space characters in certain locations only).

Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by neonate on Friday December 13, 2019 @03:14PM (#21784976)
That WSJ article is at http://archive.is/ZC39Y.
Re:Genius sues Google and LyricFind over allegedly stolen so... by blondin on Friday December 13, 2019 @06:48PM (#21786717)
funny how these things are. while they are suing google, genius is out there pushing their presence on youtube. if they end up winning, curious how this is going to play out.