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Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by javajosh on Thursday December 12, 2019 @10:06AM (#21772360)
I have a related question, which is if the government's argument is valid, then why not extend it? Why not require cameras in every room of the home, so that if abuse or molestation of a child occurs then child services can step and remove the child, and the parents be prosecuted? You might also argue that if you don't accede to this simple request, then you must have something to hide.
Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by kazagistar on Thursday December 12, 2019 @12:07PM (#21773725)
Let's extend it with reason instead. Everyone has something to hide, but the people with the most power can do the mosr dangerous things. We need power-progressive surveilence: everyone with lots of power over the lives of others should have their choices and lives be scrutinizable by those whose lives they affect.

- Random ordinary citizen? Leave me alone. - Someone in a law enforcement agency? Jail time if their mandatory badge came stop functionioning, with all the footage being public data. A powerful politician? Billionaire CEO? Board members of a massive international corporation? 24/7 livestreamed public surveillance.

After all, the worst the average person can do is shoot some people, but those who hold power can ruin the lives of millions with a word, and often do. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with it, and if they don't like it, they can simply step away from power.

I honestly believe this, but even if you don't, it's worth considering why it's always a discussion of the powerful privately and secretly monitoring the weakest in society, rather then the other way around. Almost like its purely a reinforcement of the existing hierarchy.

Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by tolstoshev on Thursday December 12, 2019 @02:36PM (#21775447)
I make a similar argument about the age of transparency hurting the elite more than it hurts common folk. If you make all my data public, I'll be at most embarrassed. If you make the elite's data public, that includes the location of dead bodies.
Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by traderjane on Thursday December 12, 2019 @03:58PM (#21776380)
You wouldn’t just be embarrassed. Job interviews, health insurance policies, even the prices or discounts available to you may all come under rational consideration.
Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by lowdose on Thursday December 12, 2019 @04:05PM (#21776453)
I would like to read more about this.
Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by generalpass on Thursday December 12, 2019 @10:11AM (#21772396)
"The accused never purchased an Alexa, carefully disabled all Android smart assistants, and even when his diligent neighbor across the street purchased a Ring for neighborhood security and protection, the accused immediately planted a very large hedge row in front of his home."
Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by kazagistar on Thursday December 12, 2019 @12:10PM (#21773760)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JaLjwSpZ6Cs

What's he building in there...?

Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by generalpass on Friday December 13, 2019 @08:37AM (#21781369)
Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by javajosh on Thursday December 12, 2019 @11:15AM (#21773128)
Indeed, sounds guilty of...whatever!
Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by paulfurley on Thursday December 12, 2019 @10:15AM (#21772423)
Philosophically, sure, but this is a straw man argument.

The practicalities and cost of putting cameras in every room then monitoring them are clearly absurd, so it undermines your case.

Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by javajosh on Thursday December 12, 2019 @10:28AM (#21772568)
Wow, you managed to pack so much wrong in such a small space, I'm a little impressed! First, at worst I've induldged in a slippery slope fallacy, not a strawman. However, I'm not making an argument, really. I'm asking a hypothetical question.

As for the absurdity of placing monitors in every room, I'm surprised someone on HN would raise that objection. IoT devices are dirt cheap, and whats more, many people voluntarily install them. The government could easily choose to subsidize Nest/Amazon/Google devices - for the low low price of free access for your protection. Maybe you would get insurance premium discounts. Many would jump on that deal.

Then you use a straw-man yourself, implying that this system would require constant human monitoring to be effective. It wouldn't. The data would be used in the same way security camera footage is used now, to be used as evidence after-the-fact, and so, as a deterrent.

So, rather than reflexively attack me, how about engaging with the thought behind it?

Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by close04 on Thursday December 12, 2019 @11:40AM (#21773405)
Politicians are responsible for some of the most critical decisions affecting a whole country, and they are also accountable in front of the people. So to improve on your idea, I'd say they should be the first to wear such an always on camera/microphone and wiretapping of every device they use. This way any attempt to corrupt or extort them would be mitigated. Why should we only think of the children when politicians are constantly the target of attacks and tempted by corruption?

Yes, it would be a massive privacy violation but given the kind of power they wield the checks in place must be equally massive. Trying to bypass these measures in any way could even be treated as a national security threat.

Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by mrandish on Thursday December 12, 2019 @12:48PM (#21774243)
Yes, it's a serious problem but even onerous approach you describe has a fundamental weakness. Since even prisoners in jail are able to obtain and use drugs, we should expect such a system to have failures and due to the nature of aggregated political power. Even a small number of such failures can have outsized negative consequences.

There is an alternative approach to mitigating this problem which is easier, cheaper and more effective. We need to reduce the concentration of political power by making politicians and beaurocrats less powerful. Since the benefits of political power tend to amplify over time, we should limit all such positions of power to single terms. Once elected to any state-wide or national public office, you can never be elected to another. One and done. If there are no 30-year career politicians, the value of influencing them is greatly diminished.

The next step is to reduce the amount of power centralized within government. Much as bank robbers target banks "because that's where the money is", crony capitalists and lobbyists seeking regulatory capture target politicians because we've allowed too much power to pool in one place.

Re:Scaring People into Supporting Backdoors by jdc on Thursday December 12, 2019 @10:32AM (#21772616)
Since we're going for technically correct.. why make the comparison to mandating a constant stream from each phone, tablet & smart TV to the DHS?