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Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by threwawasy1228 on Monday December 09, 2019 @01:42PM (#21745132)
I would literally move to nearly anywhere in the midwest, in a heartbeat if they paid real salaries. I see it now, the hundreds of HN comments from years past talking about COL differences.The salaries I've seen in the midwest are what would have been reasonable in 2006, even adjusting for CoL differences. These companies are just not keeping pace with the market. This "oh the CoL differences" line was valid in the past, and still is valid in the few tech cities that have kept pace properly like Austin, but for most places it is a excuse to trick people into accepting lower salaries than people are worth regardless of what local rent costs.

Ever notice how everybody here knows Austin even though it is flyover small town? I feel like I repeat myself a hundred thousand times. Almost EVERY city in the midwest, every city, would be as viable a location as Austin is, if the companies there weren't cheapskates and paid people what they were worth.

Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by kickopotomus on Monday December 09, 2019 @06:17PM (#21747742)
It's pretty disingenuous to call Austin a "flyover small town".

> Austin is the capital of Texas and the 11th largest city in the United States, and the 3rd largest state capital. The population of Austin is estimated at 964,254, which is an increase of more than 3% over the last census in 2010. [1]

Midwest cities are not viable Austin replacements. One of the many reasons for it's success is the University of Texas. It's a research university and one of the largest in the world. Add to that the fact that Austin has a pretty rich culture, temperate climate, and plenty to do; and now you have a place that people want to relocate to.

[1]: http://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/austin-population...

Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by ImprovedSilence on Monday December 09, 2019 @07:25PM (#21748313)
That’s all true. I’m not from the midwest, nor do I have a big allegiance to it, but the places I’ve visited, explored extensively, and have friends living in (Indy, Minneapolis, St. Louis) I find would be a very pleasant place to live and work. I can imagine that several other mid west cities also have much to offer as well. Perhaps not all at Austin’s “weird” level, but I’ve found plenty of culture (and counter culture), interesting food, and decent housing, in any big mid west city I’ve been around enough.
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by greggman2 on Monday December 09, 2019 @07:38PM (#21748415)
that's a small fly over town in my book. You can walk from one side to the other in an hour. first time I went to Austin I was shocked at how small it is. Drove in , 14 blocks and a few minutes later drove out. It might be #11 in the USA but it's still small compared Tokyo, Shanghai, Paris, London, New York, Los Angeles, Istanbul, Hong Kong, Nanjing, Hanzhou, Bejing etc...
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by non-entity on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @07:46AM (#21751902)
> It might be #11 in the USA but it's still small compared Tokyo, Shanghai, Paris, London, New York, Los Angeles, Istanbul, Hong Kong, Nanjing, Hanzhou, Bejing etc...

I wonder if that's because American cities tend to have much of the population in surrounding suburbs and towns that are often separate municipalities. For example the city of Atlanta is pretty small, with a population of under 500,000, but the metropolitan area has about 6 million in total spanning a number of counties

Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by wayoutthere on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @07:42AM (#21761868)
The list doesn't change a lot when you measure by metropolitan area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cities breaks down the list across several measurement methods.

Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by ghaff on Monday December 09, 2019 @06:29PM (#21747848)
Temperate climate is a bit of a stretch. Maybe “not as bad as Houston.” But, yeah, Austin has a lot going for it relative to a lot of other cities in that general area of the country.
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by cryptonector on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @12:46AM (#21749958)
Austin's weather is just fantastic. Not as bad as Houston, or NYC, or DC, or anywhere on the eastern seabord in the summer -- it's hot, yes, but dry-ish (not dry like Phoenix), and unlike the eastern cities, there's A/C aplenty. In the winter it doesn't get very cold, there's no snow, occasionally some ice, and some times it gets very warm in the winter. The summer heat you get used to, unlike Houston or NYC.
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by ghaff on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @08:51AM (#21752382)
To each their own I guess. I've been in Austin for a fairly typical weekend during the summer and found it pretty awful. But, then, I don't deal with heat very well generally. and I don't like being confined to A/C. That's one of the things I like about living in the North. Outside of the cities you don't even really need to have A/C.

Of course, there's snow in the winter.

Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by logfromblammo on Monday December 09, 2019 @03:46PM (#21746360)
As someone who moved out of the Midwest for higher-paying work, this comment is 100.01% accurate. I had to move to Chicago for my first real job--one which went away a little bit after after the early 2000s dot-com crash--and then eventually moved out of Madison, Wisconsin, when an east coast company bought my employer out and fired nearly everyone. That last time around, I was apparently making way more than the local median salary, and really needed to replace all of it and then some.

Every time I think about going back, I say "minimum $120k," and they say "ope, that's a bit much for us, dere" and never call me again. It saves time, I'm sure, but very disappointing nonetheless.

From Minneapolis-St.Paul to Pittsburgh is the Midwestern megacity, with zero serious geographical limits on densifying, or adding to suburban sprawl. And every company in it would happily offer $70k/year to someone with 20 years of experience, and still believe it to be "extremely generous".

At first, I thought they were all lowballing for the purposes of negotiation, but it turns out that they're all uniformly miserly.

Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by formermidwest on Monday December 09, 2019 @04:55PM (#21747046)
Agreed. I also moved from Chicago to the West coast for similar reasons. Doubled my salary overnight and have since more than doubled that again when counting my total income. The other thing is that the tech jobs in Chicago were all pretty bland enterprise jobs which didn't interest me. I moved away from family and friends (although many of my friends were headed out here anyway), and while it was a difficult decision, it was by far the best one I could have made. I might move back after retirement when I'm more cost-conscious and less active.
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by opportune on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @03:09AM (#21750612)
Not disagreeing with you, but outside of enterprise there seems to be a pretty good amount of finance jobs in Chicago. Some of the quant firms pay competitively with the bay area for software engineers / "quant devs"
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by boring_twenties on Monday December 09, 2019 @08:25PM (#21748735)
This doesn't seem to make sense. I worked at a company with a Minneapolis office once and everyone there made $150-200k+
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by raydev on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @01:06AM (#21750065)
I know an intermediate-senior level guy who's entertaining a few $120k+ offers in Minneapolis as well. Blows my mind, I never thought of Minneapolis offering that much.
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by rinchik on Monday December 09, 2019 @07:15PM (#21748250)
> one which went away a little bit after after the early 2000s dot-com crash

You have at least 15 years of experience and can't get an offer of 120K in Chicago? I don't believe that it’s plausible. Well, unless it's not a "high-tech" job you are talking about, meaning that your comment is not relevant to the article or discussion at all?

If you are a software developer (or data-scientist, or anything that qualifies as "high-tech"), it is very strange that after 15 years your skills did not appreciate or improved enough to qualify for a 120K offer.

Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by logfromblammo on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @10:19AM (#21753226)
I haven't looked in Chicago since 2004, and I'm unlikely to try again until 2024. There's more to moving than just the job.

Your post came across as vaguely insulting. A company that maxes out under my minimum isn't looking for someone with a higher level of skill--or even a median level of skill. A lot of these companies ask for the Moon, and want to pay for river rocks, then don't list salary range in their advertisements. If I can't weed them out quickly, they will waste more of my time than I care to give up.

It's not about securing an offer, it's about finding a company that isn't both tight-fisted and greedy. Now that I have left already, why would I expend the extra effort to find a Midwestern-based job that pays well, when other regions are falling over themselves to make even new graduates rich?

Midwestern companies can only attract local talent, and that talent is fleeing to cities that don't pay peanuts. I would move back, if companies there could raise the average pay of their tech employees, and maybe also get a bit more sun during the winter.

Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by harimau777 on Monday December 09, 2019 @05:26PM (#21747326)
I think the difference is that, despite its size, Austin has a culture that leads to people wanting to live there. In particular if one is a fan of live music.
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by chiph on Monday December 09, 2019 @07:38PM (#21748417)
The live music is in danger. There's lots of tall condos downtown now, filled with people who moved there for the vibe, yet file complaints about the noise from the bars & clubs on Sixth & Rainey Streets. So there's a sound level ordinance now.

https://library.municode.com/tx/austin/codes/code_of_ordinan...

Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by wiseleo on Wednesday December 11, 2019 @09:42PM (#21768845)
I find it sad that people move to a location because of nightlife and then proceed to drive that nightlife out of business.
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by cryptonector on Tuesday December 10, 2019 @12:48AM (#21749968)
The "weird" is almost gone. All the downtown bars and clubs are gone or almost gone. All the new construction got rid of those spaces and provided no replacements. Austin's on the verge of being boring.
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by boring_twenties on Monday December 09, 2019 @08:23PM (#21748728)
Couldn't agree more. I moved to a small city from NYC and what they're paying here for a senior developer is about what I made when I was 19. Why even bother? I rather just live cheap, not work at all and enjoy my life to the fullest. Then they have the nerve to complain that they can't hire anyone, lol.
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by firstplacelast on Monday December 09, 2019 @05:18PM (#21747251)
Then explain San Diego. Salaries here are notoriously low, even in the tech industry. I know nurses in the Bay Area that pull down 2x what an experienced tech worker makes here. And while housing is cheaper, you still can't get anything reasonable for under 600k.

I'm baffled that SD made it on the list.

Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by vonmoltke on Monday December 09, 2019 @05:46PM (#21747487)
You can thank the military-industrial complex for that. Ditto for LA.
Re:Five cities account for vast majority of growth in U.S. t... by tapatio on Monday December 09, 2019 @10:55PM (#21749460)
Big tech has arrived to SD with close to Bay Area salaries. DoD contractors is not where the money’s at.