News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Repo Blowup Was Fueled by Big Banks and Hedge Funds, BIS ... by JumpCrisscross on Monday December 09, 2019 @11:17AM (#21743824)
> Repo rate is the rate at which the central bank of a country lends money to commercial banks in the event of any shortfall of funds

That’s the discount rate. Repo rate is the rate of borrowing under repo agreements. Both private and monetary participants repo.

What’s a repo? Secured borrowing. Imagine you want to borrow $100. I quote 2% interest for one year with collateral. So I give you $100 and you give me a claim on your computer monitor. In a year, you give me $102 and I release title to the monitor. If you fail to pay, I get the monitor. This is traditional secured borrowing.

There is risk, though. You could trash the monitor before I get it. Or you could refuse to co-operate with my requests.

Here’s another way to structure that loan. You sell me your monitor today for $100. You further agree to buy it back from me (and I agree to sell it) in a year for $102. When things work, it’s the same transaction as above. When they don’t, I already have the monitor.

That’s repo in a nutshell.

Re:Repo Blowup Was Fueled by Big Banks and Hedge Funds, BIS ... by salawat on Monday December 09, 2019 @11:49AM (#21744097)
>it's the same transaction...

Actually, it isn't. The financial aspect might be equivalent, but look beyond the purely financial characteristics from your phrasing and you also relinquish any utility you'd have gotten out of the monitor in that time. Depending on number of monitors you have and other circumstances, that lends the transaction a very different character from the first.

EDIT: Downvotes without substantive replies or explations do nothing to further overall discourse.

I stand by my assertion that a classical collateral secured transaction is fundamentally different than a repo as described.

I'm open to having my mind changed. Just be aware, I don't look at transactions of value as only being financial in their entirety unless explicitly set out. Other forms of circumstantial value can and do emerge.

Re:Repo Blowup Was Fueled by Big Banks and Hedge Funds, BIS ... by dang on Monday December 09, 2019 @01:43PM (#21745136)
> EDIT: Downvotes without substantive replies or explations do nothing to further overall discourse

Please don't do this. It adds no information and the site guidelines explicitly ask you not to, as you'll see if you read them to the end: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. It also guarantees further downvotes, and this time they'll be correct because you broke the rules.

Re:Repo Blowup Was Fueled by Big Banks and Hedge Funds, BIS ... by salawat on Monday December 09, 2019 @01:53PM (#21745237)
Thought I caught it before the edit window closed. Missed it by || that much apparently.
Re:Repo Blowup Was Fueled by Big Banks and Hedge Funds, BIS ... by dang on Monday December 09, 2019 @03:37PM (#21746258)
I don't understand what you mean, but if you mean you want to edit that bit out, let us know at [email protected] and we can reopen the comment for editing.
Re:Repo Blowup Was Fueled by Big Banks and Hedge Funds, BIS ... by JumpCrisscross on Monday December 09, 2019 @01:38PM (#21745099)
> a classical collateral secured transaction is fundamentally different than a repo as described

You shouldn't be downvoted. The observation is correct.

In a collateralized loan, the borrower owns the collateral. In a repo, the borrower does not. This is one reason why companies finance capital equipment with secured loans, not repos.

A repo also involves two collateral purchase-and-sale transactions; a collateralized loan involves zero. This restricts it to highly liquid assets, where everyone agrees on prices and settlement is fast and cheap. In practice, this almost exclusively means Treasuries.

I was handwaving when I said they're the same transaction. They're symmetrical, cash-flow wise. But you can't replace secured loans with repos or vice versa. Repos are secured borrowing with minimal counterparty risk. Secured loans are secured borrowing with broad asset coverage.

> a classical collateral secured transaction is fundamentally different than a repo

Not fundamentally. Just different. (I'd also note that the "classic" collateralized transaction is a spherical cow.)

Lender leasing the collateral to the borrower makes a repo functionally identical to a secured loan. Lenders requiring ring-fenced collateral (e.g. in a cash-backed loan) are repos with extra steps. This symmetry belies their fundamental similarity.

There are legal differences in edge cases. But fundamentally, they're both collateralized borrowing.

Re:Repo Blowup Was Fueled by Big Banks and Hedge Funds, BIS ... by maest on Monday December 09, 2019 @12:03PM (#21744218)
Financial securities have little utility past their monetary value.

Off the top of my head, you give up on any cashflows, such as dividends/interest from the security and maybe also some anciliary rights, such as voting rights or whatever rights bondholders get.

However, you account for forgone cashflows by adjusting the repurchase price accordingly. As for the rights, you can recall the repo (it's usually done overnight).

Re:Repo Blowup Was Fueled by Big Banks and Hedge Funds, BIS ... by salawat on Monday December 09, 2019 @12:23PM (#21744403)
>Voting rights

I'd say that represents a very different transaction Still depending on where or not an important vote is coming up in the meantime, and who you are selling your voting stake to.

Re:Repo Blowup Was Fueled by Big Banks and Hedge Funds, BIS ... by moomin on Monday December 09, 2019 @04:12PM (#21746643)
Indeed. If the asset produces a revenue stream itself, e.g. coupons or dividends, things get complicated fast.