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Re:Learning to code vs. learning to automate by gen220 on Sunday December 08, 2019 @02:57PM (#21737890)
In my company, each engineer spends about ¼ of their time building or improving tools for sales, marketing, support, or operations. Notice the preposition “for” there.

I think the flaw with the scenario you described is that your programs are “replacing” these peoples’ “jobs”, when, in reality, we’re building tools that empower them to perform their jobs more effectively.

In the case where we create a self-service option for our customers, such that they no longer need to call in, our ops friends are grateful that we’ve removed a tedious task from their day to day work. From my POV, internal users are as much our customers as external users are.

Of course, there’s a fine line between “empowering” and “replacing”. As our tools become more powerful, we need fewer hours to do a greater number of tasks, so ops’ headcount can scale sub-linearly with the number of tasks they need to complete.

While that gives us a business edge, it also means that we can invest in making our fewer people more generally-skilled, so that we avoid the case you describe (where a person’s job description is encapsulated in a single task, which is eventually automated away). We can also afford to pay them well, and their work is generally more varied and interesting. It’s a clear win for those on the inside.

The only losers are the hypothetical 100 or so unskilled people we’ll never hire or invest in, because our existing 100 are adequately supported. I don’t know a solution to that problem, but it can’t be to hire 200 people and give them terrible tools.

Re:Learning to code vs. learning to automate by blotter_paper on Sunday December 08, 2019 @04:01PM (#21738285)
I'm not at all convinced that automation only results in the loss of future, and not present, jobs. In some cases the company will use the currently available worker hours for other tasks, but I can also imagine situations where workers that currently have jobs are laid off. A brief googling turned up a Forbes piece that claims millions of jobs have already been lost to automation[0], which seems believable to me whether or not the claim is accurate (Forbes has unapologetically lied in the past). This isn't to say we shouldn't automate things, but we should be aware of the effects of that automation.

[0]: https://www.forbes.com/sites/amysterling/2019/06/15/automate...

Re:Learning to code vs. learning to automate by iudqnolq on Sunday December 08, 2019 @05:49PM (#21738977)
I think the comment you're replying to was providing a single example to prove not all automation leads to job loss immediately. You're arguing some automation leads to job loss. These aren't contradictory claims. I found the anecodote interesting because it's not universally representative.
Re:Learning to code vs. learning to automate by blotter_paper on Sunday December 08, 2019 @06:09PM (#21739095)
I can see reading it that way. I was under the impression that the comment I was replying to was using a specific case to argue a broader claim, particularly with this sentence:

> I think the flaw with the scenario you described is that your programs are “replacing” these peoples’ “jobs”, when, in reality, we’re building tools that empower them to perform their jobs more effectively.

I took this as an attempted refutation of that comments parent based on the anecdotal account given.

Re:Learning to code vs. learning to automate by gen220 on Sunday December 08, 2019 @08:49PM (#21739828)
My bad, I did word it in a universalist way there, whereas I was trying to give an anecdote to counterbalance the claim I interpreted as “automation is bad for ops people”.

I think that the secret sauce that makes our automation “good”, is that we’re growing as a company, which effectively dictates that both the supply of new ops tasks and the magnitude of existing ops tasks are growing along with us.

If we weren’t growing, we’d be taking away work with our automation (instead of clearing the way for more, different work).

Re:Learning to code vs. learning to automate by blotter_paper on Sunday December 08, 2019 @09:42PM (#21740007)
Thanks for the clarification!