Are your parents here with legal status? My parents have been legal permanent residents for half a century. Their only worry over the years has been if they were ever detained "back home" would they be able to somehow get back to the United States. If your parents have legal status, not sure why ICE would be relevant to their lives or yours.

Because time and time ICE has shown it has a remarkable ability to define “legal status” as it sees fit. Consider the fake college ICE[0] used to arrest and deport immigrants; they were granted Student Visas and believed they were here legally. What would your advice be to them?

Your position seems to start from an assumption that these institutions are acting in good faith, and so it’s illogical to decry an institution if it doesn’t directly impact you. I pray you look at the gamut of evidence available that shows this simply isn’t the case.

[0] https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/ar...

> "Their true intent could not be clearer," Assistant U.S. Attorney Brandon Helms wrote in a sentencing memo earlier this month. "While 'enrolled' at the University, one hundred percent of the foreign citizen students never spent a single second in a classroom. If it were truly about obtaining an education, the University would not have been able to attract anyone, because it had no teachers, classes, or educational services."

Non-AMP link: https://www.metrotimes.com/news-hits/archives/2019/11/27/mor...

This must be one of the dumbest things I’ve ever heard of.

Imagine the cost of setting all that up, and going through the process with each student to get their visas. Only to tell them on arrival they’ve been tricked.

What exactly were they trying to accomplish with that?

ICE has captured and held nearly 1500 American citizens for varying durations, one man for nearly 1300 days. That's life ruining.

Source?

Still working on the first part, but here's a source for the second: https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/01/540903038...

Edit: This appears further down that article:

> "Those data show that from 2007 through July of last year, 693 U.S. citizens were held in local jails on federal detainers — in other words, at the request of immigration officials. And 818 more Americans were held in immigration detention centers during that same time frame, according to data obtained through a separate FOIA request by Northwestern University professor Jacqueline Stevens and analyzed by NPR."

693 + 818 = 1,511

From 2007 through 2017. 1511 people, or 151 person per year. And they were just detained, not shot dead or sent to gulags forever.

Now, honest question, no sarcasm.

~100 people die EACH DAY in car crashes in USA. 25 people die annually due to lightning strikes.

Is there any chance to not being depressed with all of that stats? I mean, if 150 detentions per year in nation of 327 million people (0.000045%) make you depressed and terrified, what are your chance to feel yourself content and happy?

> And they were just detained, not shot dead or sent to gulags forever.

They might've just lost their jobs, ended up late on rent, or going without medicine, but they were "only just detained."

> Is there any chance to not being depressed with all of that stats?

These are deaths of effectively random chance, not of systematic persecution riding on the back of nationalism waving a fasces. Each one of these detentions is a policy failure and, as we live in at least nominally Democracy, there is culpability on every American unless they take any action. This weight is what bears down on people, but it seems that you are, rather worryingly, insulated or alienated from this violence.

> what are your chance to feel yourself content and happy?

Why are so eager to change this to a subjective matter when this directly deals with objective violence?

>They might've just lost their jobs, ended up late on rent, or going without medicine, but they were "only just detained."

Yes, and again, how many people default on their student debts each year? Probably x100 times more? And the outcome is more or less the same? And still ICE is the problem?

Honestly, I just don't understand the priorities here, and again, zero sarcasm. Student debt is 1.4 TRILLION dollars, if you dont repay it you end up late on rent, go without medicine, have your wage garnished, but let's revolt around 151 people each year being detained for some time.

Honestly, if I was looking for systematic persecution, I would rather look at student debt crisis, if I correctly understand what "systematic" and "policy failure" means. (English is my second language).

EDIT: "7.5 million student loan borrowers in default and nearly 2 million others seriously behind on their payments", source NYT. Surely 1511 beat 7 500 000 as "systematic" and "policy failure".

EDIT2: And if we speak frankly, "Young people in U.S. dying at high rates" is the reason their crippling 1.4T debt or their crippling fear of being detained by ICE?

Your argument essentially boils down to whataboutism. That we can't be concerned about an agency abusing it's power and reach to lock up American citizens because there are other issues to care about.

I'm not sure we should ignore flagrant disregard for the law just because more people die in car accidents but that's just me.

I think my argument boils down to realism.

In a country of 300M people, you will never, ever get rid of some injustice and tragedy. You will always have some rapes, some orphans, people wrongfully jailed, stuff like that. That's just a harsh truth of human existence and I accept it as a mere mortal.

But let's be concerned about an agency abusing it's power and harming 151 people per year. Student loan industry makes millions of people miserable each year, and contribute to "young people in US dying at high rates", but since it's all within the law and said industry not abusing it's power at all, we can just disregard it.

Honestly, it's just a crazy talk to me. Let's abolish ICE and death rate for young adults in US will improve instantly, right? Or maybe let's fix that 1.5T of debt which literally kills mostly young adults?

>we live in at least nominally Democracy, there is culpability on every American unless they take any action. This weight is what bears down on people, but it seems that you are, rather worryingly, insulated or alienated from this violence.

Constantly exposing yourself to and decidedly feeling immense personal guilt for all the violence perpetrated in a country of 300+ million and/or a world of 7+ billion is hopelessly naive and self sabotaging, unless you fancy yourself a God who is out to save the world.

>when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you. -Nietzsche

>There is only one way to happiness and that is to cease worrying about things which are beyond the power of our will. -Epictetus

The difference is that one of those is the result of accidents and natural phenomenon, the other is the result of a government secret police detaining people indefinitely and going against the founding principles of this country.

Those are the numbers they were willing to give up, too. I assume you don't see the problem with the government choosing to just pull American citizens off the street?

> ICE is terrifying whenever we travel

As a child of immigrants and proud American, I’m not sure “terrifying” is a fair response. It’s certainly uncomfortable. But it shouldn’t be enough to push one (here legally) into depression to the point of suicide or drug use.

"I'm not sure it's fair that you're terrified."

This is probably the darkest distillation of 2019 neoliberal energy I've heard across many platforms.

"That shouldn't push one into depression to the point of suicide or drug use."

Please spend some effort in 2020 developing empathy for other humans.

It's truly deplorable what ICE is doing. Many people fret about what ICE is doing (including myself at times) to a degree that is absolutely debilitating. I think the point here — though OP has stated it in a deeply awkward and arguably insensitive manner — is that it is better to relieve oneself of crippling worry for things outside of their control, even if they are profoundly harmful. That is not to say that one should relieve oneself of profound and deep concern and compassion for those affected; and one, where is possible, should do all that they can to help in an authentic manner. A preponderance of crippling worry, however, seems to me to cause either (a) inaction due to despair (which in some cases may be as harmful as ignorance) (b) complete support of a harmful situation in question (e.g. the alt-right supporting profoundly cruel anti-immigration policies).

I agree with this, but I’m pointing out the examples provided are more than a lack of tact- it’s choosing disengagement and by disengaging assuming no one else has legitimate worries or lives a life different than them. It’s an apathy that’s the same side of the worry coin.

Obviously I was being rhetorical. I was speaking in strong certainties to elicit a response. Obviously in your case ICE is a concern. For 99% of the people who are paralyzed by thinking about it - they would be better served focusing on getting back to their life. (And voting for people who MIGHT do something about it)

For what it's worth, my circumstances agree with you. I've become much less stressed out on the day to day by ungluing my eyes from newsmedia.

Agreed.

Nobody "deserves" to stay in another country unless they are there legally.

Legal USA residents and citizens have been detained for months by ICE, JSYK. Believing your legal status protects you from having your rights stripped is leaving us all vulnerable.

Do you have a source for that?

I think people have a right to exist. If they are seeking asylum and they are not a threat, I think we should help each other out. Turning your backs on them because you don't like their race/religion goes against what America was supposed to be about. If we deport everyone who isn't legal knowing they'll either be killed or separated from their families, that speaks volumes about our country's morals and compassion. Deporting people because they don't "deserve" to be here is an extremely elitist attitude.

People have a right to exist in their own countries.

It would be unsustainable to let in everybody who wants to move to another country. That's why quotas, background checks, etc exist.

Entering a country illegally knowing that it will mean you'll be splitting your family in half speaks volumes about the morals and compassion of the person who does that.

I don't think it has anything to do with race or religion. There's not a country in the world with open borders. Most first world countries are actually harder to get into than the US.

It's odd to me that people started worrying about ICE en mass when Trump became president. It's an organization that has existed since 2003. In addition nearly every country in the world has similar or more stringent policies. Yet no one talks about that and they act as if ICE is unique in some capacity. It's hard to see that as anything other than politically motivated or misguided by media propaganda.

Are your parents in the US illegally?