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Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by lilyball on Friday November 22, 2019 @03:56PM (#21609977)
People who can be expected to experience increased distress from the topic are much more likely to choose to avoid it, so I'm not surprised in the least by that association.

Also from the article:

> critics argue that the avoidance of potentially upsetting material is actually a counterproductive approach because it offers no chance to learn to manage one’s emotional reactions.

This is wrong. You don't learn to manage emotional reactions by being forced to consume triggering content. If you have a problem with emotional reactions that needs adjustment, that's what therapy is for. Or using delaying tactics such that you don't consume the content until you're more prepared to handle it. Anyone who thinks springing triggering content on people without warning is good because it forces them to react to it is literally abusive.

And many times avoiding triggering content forever is perfectly fine and doesn't need to be managed. Personally, I don't have any trauma around rape but I would really prefer to avoid reading about it, so I really appreciate trigger warnings on content that includes it. This isn't something that needs to be "fixed", there's no reason why I must work towards being indifferent towards rape.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by ghostpepper on Friday November 22, 2019 @04:03PM (#21610047)
I am no expert but it was my understanding that therapy for trauma often includes exposure to triggering stimuli precisely because it's not a realistic option to just hope you don't run into something triggering "in the wild" for the rest of your life.
Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by watwut on Friday November 22, 2019 @04:13PM (#21610143)
Yes, but you do that with therapist in setting where potential meltdown has no consequences to you or other people. The therapist is also supposed to decide your progress based on how it is going.
Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by tekproxy on Friday November 22, 2019 @04:13PM (#21610145)
My dog was afraid of taking a bath. I fixed this by rewarding her for coming into the bathroom. Once she was comfortable, I got her into the tub and rewarded her. After 15 minutes of "exposure therapy" she loves jumping into the tub and it's easier for both of us when she's stinky. I'm pretty sure people work similarly but it's hard to reward them with dog food.
Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by vincent-toups on Friday November 22, 2019 @04:27PM (#21610253)
People aren't dogs to be trained. To an extent, to be human and to recognize other people's humanity is to accept and accommodate their irrationality where doing so isn't particularly onerous to you.
Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by antepodius on Friday November 22, 2019 @04:49PM (#21610480)
Training works on people; people are animals. To a certain extent, this is what therapy is: helping people train parts of their brains to behave differently.
Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by vincent-toups on Friday November 22, 2019 @06:50PM (#21611323)
My point wasn't about whether or not you can train people. My point is that you shouldn't, in general, think of human beings as things upon which you perform training.

There may be certain contexts in which training is an acceptable thing for a person to do or have done to them, but that typically doesn't apply to normal interactions between adult human beings.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by filoleg on Monday November 25, 2019 @01:36PM (#21631253)
I don't think OP meant that we are expected to train other people, unless you are a licensed therapist whose job is to do so.

I believe their implication was that we can and should be training ourselves, which is something we already do every day.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by bobthepanda on Friday November 22, 2019 @04:56PM (#21610537)
The difference is that we have therapists who are licensed to do this, and who are better at judging progress and when it might be appropriate to progress you.

Your average lecturer or teacher is not trained in this way, at least specifically regarding trauma.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by yabadabadoes on Friday November 22, 2019 @05:46PM (#21610922)
The average lecturer was managing a class, but now they need to prescreen individuals for experiences that make them too weak for normal classes?

Just about 10 years ago cutting edge therapists were implanting false memories of childhood trauma.. If someone does not seem to need a therapist based on actual behavior then I don't think schools should be inviting lecturers to create pre-screening based on students reactions to trigger warnings, etc.

Bad ideas like every lecturer learning pop psychology "safety" and then reading tea leaves to tell people under their authority to get help is how you create a generation with psychological problems.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by vincent-toups on Friday November 22, 2019 @06:58PM (#21611375)
I don't think lectures need to do all that much work. They just need to think for a bit and warn people "Hey, this could be disturbing." That's pretty much it.

Its not like trigger warnings impose an onerous responsibility on teachers. There isn't any suggestion that they tell their students to get help. Its literally just a "heads up, I'm about to talk about X".

I'm not on a campus, and when I was in was in physics and math classrooms, but its hard to imagine this is that big of a deal.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by yabadabadoes on Friday November 22, 2019 @07:17PM (#21611475)
I think the article covers why simply announcing trigger warnings is not helpful but more importantly why it is not a steady state system.

As I see it this is basically recreating the weaker sex etiquette argument with bias based on experiences instead of gender. All the outrage.of speaking in front of the wrong people, special new requirements, plenty of signalling that you are better than others because they manage the necessary risks to do their job.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by bobthepanda on Friday November 22, 2019 @07:08PM (#21611424)
"Hey, this book contains a graphical description of rape" is very low effort, just like how telling somebody that a food you made yourself contains peanuts is very low effort.

The only time lecturers wouldn't know when something might trigger someone is if they haven't actually read or looked at the content that they're about to present, which I find pretty hard to believe.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by yabadabadoes on Friday November 22, 2019 @07:36PM (#21611576)
With a peanut allergy you have it and don't eat the food.

With the trigger warning what exactly? It's easy to announce something you are going to do and do it. The article addresses how pointless and possibly counterproductive that is.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by bobthepanda on Friday November 22, 2019 @09:06PM (#21611947)
With a peanut allergy you have it and don't consume the food to avoid the adverse effects.

With a trigger warning you simply don't consume the content. Ideally, this is posted on the syllabus, so that the amount of time wasted arguing about this is minimized.

The article doesn't really "address" anything, it just makes value statements. For example, this paragraph:

> Consider a meta-analysis of 39 studies in 2007 by Sam Houston State University in Texas that found a ‘clear, consistent association’ between using avoidance-based coping strategies (that is, staying away from upsetting stressors or avoiding thinking about them) and increased psychological distress. For a more concrete example, look at the findings from a study, published in 2011, of women who witnessed the Virginia Tech shooting of 2007 – those who tried to avoid thinking about what happened tended to experience more symptoms of depression and anxiety in the months that followed.

You could say that the association is that people who avoid their traumas are more depressed and anxious, but you could also say the reverse, that people who are more depressed or anxious try to avoid the traumas that caused those things in the first place. It's an association with no causal link, so you don't know which direction the association runs in or even if one is directly caused by the other.

Trigger warnings are an avoidance mechanism, period. The only difference between this and a peanut allergy is that people don't feel the need to moralize about how we're enabling peanut-avoiders like it's a bad thing.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by yabadabadoes on Saturday November 23, 2019 @05:40AM (#21613461)
> The only difference between this and a peanut allergy is that people don't feel the need to moralize about how we're enabling peanut-avoiders like it's a bad thing.

Er, no. Most people are doing a rough calculation of frequency of real allergy to self diagnosis and quack practitioners.. Substitute another food like wheat and you get a different result. Then people start asking why perception of allergies is spreading when actual prevalence is unchanged and you get back to the proven science understanding of psychology, placebo.

https://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Tests/all...

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by ceejayoz on Friday November 22, 2019 @04:08PM (#21610088)
Yes, it may, particularly if it's an unavoidable trigger.

That should be done safely and consensually within the context of a therapy session/plan with a professional guiding it.

It's like surgery. Entirely acceptable in certain scenarios, but you'd object if your English lit prof decided to DIY it during class.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by lmm on Friday November 22, 2019 @05:01PM (#21610591)
Aren't the trigger warnings a DIY treatment themselves? In the absence of specific professional advice, I'd think the default would be to treat people normally. Why are we so eager to put trigger warnings on things without any evidence that they're doing more good than harm?
Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by ceejayoz on Friday November 22, 2019 @05:12PM (#21610670)
No, they’re not a treatment. They may aid someone who is in treatment, though.

I know an abuse survivor who has been in therapy for many years working on the impact of it. We avoid movies with abuse depictions as it causes severe disassociation and setbacks in that treatment.

Someone for whom it’s triggering but less severely so might just opt to watch said movies with a trusted friend on a day they’re feeling emotionally sound.

They allow folks to choose the level of exposure to optional, potentially damaging things. Just like an R rating on a film might make you pause before bringing an 8 year old to the theater.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by eej2ya1K on Friday November 22, 2019 @04:11PM (#21610116)
It includes exposure, yes, but the idea is to encourage the patient/client to decide to seek out triggering stimuli themselves.
Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by mrandish on Friday November 22, 2019 @04:41PM (#21610399)
> I really appreciate trigger warnings on content that includes it.

This is fine as long as it's kept within reason like certain more commonly occurring traumatic themes such as sexual violence, etc. Conversely, it's also possible to go too far and let this get out of hand. If, for example, we were to let everyone define whatever they feel may personally trigger or offend them, we could end up with half of everything needing various warnings for each one-in-ten-thousand person's particular sensitivity. That could grow unmanageable pretty quickly and become an unreasonable burden on publishers, performers, teachers, comedians, etc.

I feel there needs to be a healthy balance between the responsibilities we expect speaker/publisher to bear and the responsibility each individual must bear. It's reasonable to expect individuals choosing to participate in the public sphere possess a modicum of resilience. Otherwise, we risk diminishing the diversity of our robust marketplace of ideas.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by pgcj_poster on Friday November 22, 2019 @07:50PM (#21611630)
In my experience, content warnings are usually a product of authorial judgement. For instance, I once wrote an article that discussed some people with extremely racist views. It occurred to me that some people might not want to read quotes containing vile, offensive comments about their race (or even someone else's). So I put a warning at the top so that such people wouldn't read the article if they didn't think they could handle it. No one forced me to do it. No one would have come for my head if I hadn't. As far as I can tell, this is the usual case: people put content warnings on their content for reasonable things when they think it's a good idea. I really don't see anything remotely resembling a problem, and I think people only really get upset about content warnings as a proxy for the greater culture war.
Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by eej2ya1K on Friday November 22, 2019 @04:08PM (#21610084)
"Indifferent towards rape." Seriously? Not being triggered by a depiction of a rape in a novel doesn't mean you're indifferent towards rape.

And while "springing" "triggering" "content" on a weak person is a bad idea, encouraging them to seek out triggering content on their own and approach it at their own pace is going to create a stronger, better person. It's not just about the trigger either - learning that you can overcome something like that is extremely empowering. Hiding for the rest of your life is slowly going to turn you into a coward.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by ceejayoz on Friday November 22, 2019 @04:11PM (#21610120)
> Not being triggered by a depiction of a rape in a novel doesn't mean you're indifferent towards rape.

That wasn't the point being made.

The point is that if depictions of rape are triggering to you, it's not necessarily important to work on not being triggered by rape depictions. Avoidance is generally acceptable there.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by antepodius on Friday November 22, 2019 @05:22PM (#21610753)
Isn't it better for a person to not be triggerable?

Wouldn't you wish, if a friend of yours was chronically vunerable in a way that hindered them that, all else being equal, they would become more resilient- for their own sake?

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by mirimir on Friday November 22, 2019 @09:21PM (#21611993)
Yes, this !!!

Being triggerable is a weakness. It gives others power over you. So why would anyone want that?

Also, not being triggerable does not mean being insensitive or cynical or tolerant or whatever. It's just about being able to deal with stuff without freaking out.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by ceejayoz on Friday November 22, 2019 @10:40PM (#21612294)
> So why would anyone want that?

Even after decades of therapy, rape victims may still be triggered by descriptions/depictions of rape. Abuse victims may not be able to watch a movie with an abused child without breaking down, even after long, intensive therapy.

It's not generally a choice.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by mirimir on Friday November 22, 2019 @10:50PM (#21612338)
OK, thanks.

And upon reflection, I get that I'm triggered by dogs. Having been attacked by a doberman, many years ago. And surviving only because it was on a chain, and I didn't fall down. So it only took a chunk out of one ankle.

So now, whenever I encounter a dog, I immediately think about what I could use as a weapon.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by ceejayoz on Friday November 22, 2019 @09:09PM (#21611955)
Sure. That’s what therapy is for. It's still a long, tough road for survivors of trauma.

Triggering people in an unsafe, uncontrolled context can make it harder, not easier.

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by eropple on Friday November 22, 2019 @05:45PM (#21610915)
> encouraging them to seek out triggering content on their own and approach it at their own pace is going to create a stronger, better person

Are you a therapist?

Are you their therapist?

Re:Trigger warnings don’t help people cope with distressing ... by pgcj_poster on Friday November 22, 2019 @08:03PM (#21611681)
Approaching something at your own pace is a lot easier if you can know it advance where you're likely to encounter it.