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Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by JohnFen on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @06:15PM (#21530840)
From my own selfish point of view, I'm actually happy that Linux has a small consumer marketshare, as long as it's large enough to support serious development (which it is).

I've been noticing that as various applications, operating systems, and platforms have worked to become more focused on the common person, they've been increasingly becoming less useful (and more of a pain to use) to me. I fear that if Linux actually broke into the mainstream, the same fate would befall it.

Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by fortran77 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @06:44PM (#21531094)
I feel the same way about my favorite programming languages. I'm glad there aren't giant Haskell conferences that are more concerned with making the language "friendly" and "accessible" than making it useful. This is what happened to Python, etc, and I don't think it's a good thing.
Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by JohnFen on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @07:12PM (#21531316)
Yes, I've noticed this. It's led me to avoid using a lot of newer languages for anything but toy and learning projects (outside of work, where I use what is required, which includes some of these languages).

For my own serious work, language stability over time is a core need.

Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by azinman2 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @07:23PM (#21531394)
What's wrong with trying to bring people in? Why be elitist with tooling?
Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by grumpy-cowboy on Thursday November 14, 2019 @01:05PM (#21537730)
Why not? Not everything have to be dumb proof/easy. For example, Suckless softwares like DWM (https://dwm.suckless.org/). Extract:

"Because dwm is customized through editing its source code, it's pointless to make binary packages of it. This keeps its userbase small and elitist. No novices asking stupid questions."

Sometimes we need to have expert/power user's tools. It's not specific to IT jobs. You can see it in many other jobs.

Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by azinman2 on Thursday November 14, 2019 @09:27PM (#21541725)
There’s a difference between powerful and accessible. I can build all kinds of crazy experience on an iPhone — but they also make the documentation available to me and attempt to pull developers in.

I understand that there are highly specialized environments/needs that are niche, but I would argue Haskell (along with most programming languages) isn’t one. It’s a programming language plain and simple. It doesn’t even have special neiche feature like Ada for proving correctness because this is going to power a fighter jet. It’s a language for CS nerds... that’s it AFAIK.

By valuing elitism, you largely are guaranteeing less positive impact on the world, as well as pushing away people who might come with ideas to improve the state of the art. You’re also letting less people experience the power and “purity” of a pure functional language, which dampens the impact those ideas can have on other developments.

Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by antepodius on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @07:27PM (#21531421)
It guarantees the userbase is elite.
Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by pnako on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @07:35PM (#21531487)
What has the elite userbase of Haskell produced? Almost nothing.
Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by azinman2 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @09:23PM (#21532227)
And tiny. Why is this a good thing?
Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by antepodius on Friday November 22, 2019 @06:16PM (#21611136)
A tiny userbase working on tony codebases that implement just enough feautures that the program's worth it for elite users can be worth it to elite users.
Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by b0rsuk on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @07:26PM (#21531415)
Arguably Python got pretty far, being refined in the process, before the floodgates broke. I mean look at Javascript, C, C++. No contest.
Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by b0rsuk on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @07:24PM (#21531399)
You would still have a Linux distribution (or five) for nerds and techies. I don't see why it distributions would cease to be if Linux became more popular.
Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by JohnFen on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @07:37PM (#21531502)
Maybe, but I have doubts. Not so much about the distros as such (although there is risk there, too), but more about the utilities and applications.

I've already stopped using several applications that I've been using for years because of this sort of thing. If it keeps up, I fear I'll run out of alternatives.

Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by spoontoeat on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @08:18PM (#21531814)
Examples? For the curious.
Re:We shouldn’t blame ourselves for the Linux desktop’s micr... by JohnFen on Thursday November 14, 2019 @11:17AM (#21536617)
Sure, the most recent example would be Firefox.