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Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by keiferski on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:08PM (#21527317)
Having been to Venice multiple times, I have somewhat of a contrarian view: even if the entire city were underwater, it wouldn’t really change much. Venice as an actual place to live died decades ago. It’s nothing more than Disneyland at this point.

If it found itself under the Adriatic in 50 years, I imagine it would simply become an underwater Disneyland. The architecture might actually be better preserved for future generations; for example, had Venice sunk prior to the mid-80’s, there wouldn’t be a McDonald’s there (yup, there’s a McDonald’s in Venice.)

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by Lucadg on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:13PM (#21527367)
Venice is actually a great place to live if you don't prioritize for comfort but appreciate other aspects of life.

I guess it really depends on each person but not having cars really makes up for many other disadvantages.

Which makes you think how bad cars in the city are in general.

You don't really appreciate this until they are gone.

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by keiferski on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:18PM (#21527446)
Oh I think the idea of Venice is brilliant. Historically it must have been incredible, when the palaces were actually in use and not simply museums. But at this point the entire economy of the city is based on tourism. Any trace of authentic life sunk a long time ago.
Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by Lucadg on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:24PM (#21527522)
I can understand it feels like this, but I assure real people live and work there, and there is a real local culture and authentic life.

I lived there and I lived in many other cities like Paris, London, Munich, Krakow, Bangkok and Bali.

Venice is one of the most authentic cities of them all.

The language is alive and evolving.

It's a bit like the fight club, real locals recognize each others, while the tourists think it's just a Disneyland.

Quite fascinating!

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by rayiner on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:32PM (#21527637)
Peoples' "authentic life" is finding a job, finding housing, finding a school for the kids, interacting with neighbors, dealing with trash pickup and water bills, etc. A tourist can never experience that. Even if you experience the flooding with real Venetians, you're not going to deal with the water damage for weeks afterward, or attempting to get insurance claims paid. But that's "authentic life."

Charming restaurants, quirky bookshops, etc., that's not "authentic life." That's frivolity. Sharing frivolities with the locals doesn't give you any insight into their "authentic life." Tourism is always Disneyland. It's always fake. It's just different versions of Disneyland for people of different temperaments.

(It's funny you mention Bangkok. I was born in Bangkok. What exactly is less "authentic" about it than Venice? How can a city even be less "authentic" than another city?)

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by rectang on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:51PM (#21527865)
Au contraire: fantasy and frivolity are essential to an "authentic life". Regardless of where you were born and what station you were born into.
Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by davidw on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @07:41PM (#21531533)
I can confirm. When my wife was working at the University of Padova, she had a colleague from Venice. We'd go visit him once in a while and he'd show us around some of the more 'normal people' places. I mean, yes, it's very touristy, but "real people" do live there.
Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by bamboozled on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @03:04PM (#21528839)
Where is the city called Bali?
Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by Lucadg on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @06:06PM (#21530770)
I meant Bali the island, sorry
Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by impendia on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:33PM (#21527643)
When I visited Venice, around 15 years ago, at first I was not impressed. I'd seen the fake version at a theme park, and somehow it felt like more of the same.

But then I saw a couple traces of authentic life. We ran into a local walking her dog, and my friend (who speaks fluent Italian) chatted her up. On one of the smaller canals I saw a road sign -- not seemingly aimed at tourists or even gondoliers, but at ordinary Venetians trying to get around.

All of a sudden, the whole city felt amazing.

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by ng12 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @02:22PM (#21528319)
> Venice is actually a great place to live if you don't prioritize for comfort but appreciate other aspects of life.

Perhaps, if you're prioritizing access to hordes of tourists.

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by Lucadg on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @06:08PM (#21530781)
You live with what you have. Tourists are both invading and bringing money, both a curse and a blessing.

Some cultures seem more fit than others to deal with it.

Some are overwhelmed, others learn to manage.

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by ng12 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @06:44PM (#21531091)
Right -- and I would absolutely put Venice in the overwhelmed category. When I travel I try to experience the local culture as much as possible and I simply wasn't able to find it in Venice. I walked around the city for hours (which is a lot, Venice is very small) and the parts that weren't overwhelmed with tourists or part of the university were completely lifeless.

Most of the locals live on the mainland, anyways. Venice itself is a living museum at best.

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by Lucadg on Thursday November 14, 2019 @12:21AM (#21532995)
And yet there it was, right in front of your eyes, right in the middle of the tourists.

When I walk in Venice I constantly meet locals I know, going around their daily life.

It's hard to see this unless you are with some of them.

And even if you see it, it won't tell you anything unless you are part of it.

It's fascinating to see how two different "species" of animals coexist and barely interact on a meaningful level.

I'm not saying it's a good situation but it's not a living museum, people live, work, love and fight there.

We can't dismiss them because we don't see them.

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by ng12 on Thursday November 14, 2019 @12:51AM (#21533107)
I believe that they exist. It's just Venice ranks shockingly low on the list of cities I would like to live in given it's cultural and historical significance.

You say there are other priorities that make Venice attractive -- like what? You still haven't made that clear. The nice parts of the city are completely given over to tourism, the hidden corners feel abandoned and listless.

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by Lucadg on Thursday November 14, 2019 @03:09AM (#21533690)
I guess it's subjective but here's my list:

- no cars. This alone raises the quality life by an amazing degree.

- 100% walkable.

- you meet people you know all the time. Feels like a village.

- international. Many interesting characters live there. A village but an international one.

- beautiful and decadent.

And of course there's also a long list of negatives such as expensive, uncomfortable, wet, touristy etc....

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by danmaz74 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:31PM (#21527613)
You could argue that it's becoming like Pompei, but for sure it's nothing like Disneyland.
Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by yardstick on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @04:37PM (#21529881)
Side note: if anyone does go to Venice and finds the McDonalds, walk straight behind it down the alleyway, there’s an amazing, reasonably priced restaurant right behind it. Their meatballs are fantastic (not spaghetti meatballs, just meatballs), along with everything else.

It’s called Cà D'Oro alla Vedova. We were shown it by a local, only realised McDonalds was near it after we finished eating.

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by Grue3 on Thursday November 14, 2019 @08:39AM (#21535238)
>yup, there’s a McDonald’s in Venice

Imagine, a place to eat in Venice that isn't a rip-off tourist trap restaurant. Free toilets as well!

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by rayiner on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:27PM (#21527567)
What's wrong with McDonalds? McDonalds is great. Disneyland is also great. Have you ever been to Disneyland? People love Disneyland.
Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by safsafsa on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:58PM (#21527966)
"What's wrong with McDonalds?"

Arguably its bad food. Anyways its mass produced food that has no attachment to the place where it is consumed (outside the USA). Food, like the appreciation of a city, has a cultural aspect that McDonald's lacks.

McDonal's for someone visiting Europe makes no sense at all. You've dropped a few thousand in airfare and hotels, now you're being cheap on the food?? (Here I make an exception for Europeans eating McDonalds. They live there, they know their culture and their food. Go ahead stuff your pie holes just for the purpose of filling your bellies).

"Disneyland is also great."

idem for Disneyland. It's a fake image of a medieval utopia that never existed even in fairy tales. It's purpose is to create value to the Disney brand by becoming, through sheer force of the ubiquity of the Disney company, a part of children's childhood replacing real experiences and the myths handed down through generations. You don't learn anything at Disneyland, you do not grow as a person at Disney because there is no substance to Disneyland.

At best you have "fun", whatever that means. More likely you're told you had fun, and you repeat that to yourself to avoid admitting you mostly just waited in line.

Venice as Disneyland is a place where hoards of bucketlisters checkoff yet another selfie at Piazza San Marco (or is Piazza Spagna? who remembers? who cares!?), not for the San Marco's sake, but to pretend they accomplished something merely by buying a cheap ticket and airbnb.

You made it to Venice! Big deal! How hard is that?

No. A person who wakes up 4:00am to make it to San Marco at dawn to see San Marco alone has accomplished something (albeit small). A person who goes to Venice and doesn't go to Piazza San Marco, but instead spends the whole time alleys long forgotten by the hoard has accomplished something.

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by SamReidHughes on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @05:25PM (#21530357)
One reason to go to McDonald's while traveling is so you can discover the differences in each country's McDonald's. As a Philadelphian I have my own version of this, living in California -- I'll always order a cheesesteak if it's on the menu, the first time I'm at a restaurant. Just to see how good/bad it is.
Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by codesushi42 on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @02:54PM (#21528710)
McDonal's for someone visiting Europe makes no sense at all.

McDonalds is better and cheaper than a lot of the overpriced, crappy food in Europe.

It's a fake image of a medieval utopia that never existed even in fairy tales.

That's quite a high horse you rode in on.

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by rayiner on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @04:42PM (#21529935)
> No. A person who wakes up 4:00am to make it to San Marco at dawn to see San Marco alone has accomplished something (albeit small). A person who goes to Venice and doesn't go to Piazza San Marco, but instead spends the whole time alleys long forgotten by the hoard has accomplished something.

They’ve accomplished nothing the person who went to Disneyland didn’t accomplish. There is no value in doing something just because it’s different from what “the hoard” is doing. (Indeed, if you’re going one way while everyone else is going the other way, you’re probably the one who is lost.)

Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by mark-r on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:43PM (#21527762)
I think I might have a picture of that McDonald's sign, taken back in 2004.
Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by mark-r on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @09:54PM (#21532372)
OK, I was so completely wrong about that... It was 2003, and it was Rothenberg ob der Tauber, Germany, not Venice. We went both places on the same trip so it's easy to see how I got confused.
Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by golergka on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @01:37PM (#21527684)
Why do you write about McDonald's and tourism as if it's something bad?
Re:Venice Battles Flooding Amid Highest Tide in 50 Years by safsafsa on Wednesday November 13, 2019 @02:02PM (#21528049)
Because they are.

McDonald's outside of the USA is supplanting rich cultural histories.

Tourism, especially as practiced by those who eat at McDonald's while visiting a foreign country, is typically disastrous to the local way of life. Locals end up selling trinkets to people for afar with more money then sense. Eventually the city becomes affordable and unbearable for the locals and the city becomes a lifeless shell of what it once was. Insipid like Las Vegas.