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Re:Uber’s self-driving car could not detect pedestrians outs... by SilasX on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @01:35PM (#21465497)
>> 5.6 seconds before impact, it classified her as a vehicle. Then it changed its mind to “other,” then to vehicle again, back to “other,” then to bicycle, then to “other” again, and finally back to bicycle.

Those still all seem to fall into the category "thing you should avoid hitting", though, right?

Re:Uber’s self-driving car could not detect pedestrians outs... by NoodleIncident on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @02:02PM (#21465815)
The table goes into more detail. Each time the classification changed, the history for that object was essentially deleted; since there's only one data point, the system predicted that it would "continue" to stay stationary, even though the pedestrian was walking at a steady pace.
Re:Uber’s self-driving car could not detect pedestrians outs... by rubicon33 on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @02:34PM (#21466206)
That part, about deleting the history, confuses me.

Why delete the history on a classification change?

Shouldn't classifications be tiered? In this case, while the system was struggling to PERFECTLY classify the object, it was clearly thinking it was something that should be avoided (oscillating between car, bike, other).

In this case, I would expect the system to keep it's motion history. IMO, this could have prevented the accident because although it didn't determine it was a bicycle/person until "too late" ... it had determined with plenty of time that it was maybe a car, maybe a bike.

Re:Uber’s self-driving car could not detect pedestrians outs... by SilasX on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @03:23PM (#21466769)
This classification failure reminds me of the concept of "Disguised queries" I saw on LessWrong [1]. That is, there's the question you really want to answer:

A) Should I avoid driving this car into this thing?

and then there are subsidiary questions that help to answer that, but would be fully obviated if you already had a good answer for A):

B1) Is this a human?

B2) Is this a vehicle?

B3) Is this unrecognizable?

The "natural category" here is "drive into" vs "don't drive into", not "human vs vehicle vs fruit stand vs other".

[1] https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/4FcxgdvdQP45D6Skg/disguised-...

In the article, the A)-type question is whether the object has vanadium, and the B)-type questions are whether the object is a blegg (blue round thing) or a rube (red square thing). The distinction becomes stark when you know it has vanadium, but it doesn't neatly fall on the blegg/rube continuum.

Re:Uber’s self-driving car could not detect pedestrians outs... by beerandt on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @02:53PM (#21466426)
If it's having a hard time both identifying an object, as well as measuring it's movement, there's not really any reason it should understand that all those separate data points are the same object.

That is, it doesn't really matter if the object history is "deleted" or not; if it can't associate a new data point with a previous history (by identification or predicted position), the practical result is the same as if there is no object history.

This could be a result of using velocity based tracking, which I don't know that Uber uses, but is a fairly standard method, as it's what raw GPS measurements are based on.

Re:Uber’s self-driving car could not detect pedestrians outs... by Udik on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @03:34PM (#21466907)
> if it can't associate a new data point with a previous history (by identification or predicted position)

This sounds a bit strange, given that the entire technology around which autonomous driving is built is about identifying and recognising patterns in extremely noisy and variable data.

Re:Uber’s self-driving car could not detect pedestrians outs... by ptidhomme on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @02:06PM (#21465853)
This seems to be the core problem in my opinion : the category swapping inhibited a timely braking decision.

If so, how come these categories where not encompassed into a more abstract "generic object" whose relative position seems to be getting closer since first detection ? That ought to have triggered the same braking scheme as, say, an unmoving car detection ahead.

I'd go for : utter engineering malpractice.

Re:Uber’s self-driving car could not detect pedestrians outs... by beerandt on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @03:01PM (#21466529)
I suspect overly aggressive association of unknown objects would have it's own set of side effects.
Re:Uber’s self-driving car could not detect pedestrians outs... by ptidhomme on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @04:49PM (#21467807)
Well, in my experience, if you're left to balance side-effects, it's that your underlying design is flawed.

But regardless, taking sensor classification (inherently error-prone) at face value is engineering malpractice.

Re:Uber’s self-driving car could not detect pedestrians outs... by Sohcahtoa82 on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @02:05PM (#21465838)
Right, but as the article mentions, each time it got reclassified, the tracking history gets wiped, so the car doesn't know that the object is about to enter the path of the SUV. It just sees an object that's in the other lane and assumes it's going to stay there.
Re:Uber’s self-driving car could not detect pedestrians outs... by dkonofalski on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @03:49PM (#21467064)
>the tracking history gets wiped

This might be a little too nitpicky but it doesn't get wiped. It's simply no longer associated with that object because it's considered a different object. It's still a huge, glaring issue, obviously, but all the data is still there.

In this particular case, the "object" was identified as one type of object and so all of the data related to that was classified as "car" info, for example, and then, when it's reclassified, that additional data starts recording to the "bike" info bucket. The software should have been keeping track of certain data regardless of that classification but it's only seeing the latest bucket of data. If the tracking history got wiped, we wouldn't have the data to look back on to see how this was all happening.

Re:Uber’s self-driving car could not detect pedestrians outs... by SilasX on Wednesday November 06, 2019 @02:06PM (#21465860)
Major facepalm right there. It's like all the stupidity of UI choices I see, but with the consequence of a car collision, and (in cases like this) death.