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Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by exabrial on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @11:35AM (#21453930)
I don't understand why anyone wants these listening devices in their home
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by ryandvm on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:09PM (#21454304)
Do you really not understand or are you just not accepting the same answers everyone gives every time this question comes up?

They're terribly useful for listening to music, setting timers, alarms, reminders, checking weather, traffic, unit conversions, and just general web lookups.

I suspect what you meant was, "why do people trade their privacy for convenience?" Which of course is ALWAYS the trade-off one makes when it comes to security.

I personally have decided (for now) that the convenience of the devices outweighs the likely harm they will have on me. Would I have one if I were running for political office? Absolutely not.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by nimajneb on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:27PM (#21454495)
I use mine to check the weather every morning and frequently listen to the news feature. As well as music during the day sometimes. I love them :) I think other people are just obtuse or paranoid about surveillance.
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by eeZah7Ux on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @01:17PM (#21455032)
Most of the security and privacy concerns come from not bothering to press few buttons on a smartphone.

A smartphone that would be in your hands or pockets anyways.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by cbsmith on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @02:32PM (#21455784)
Yeah, this explains why they've been integrated into every high end headset. ;-)
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by satokema_work on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:22PM (#21454427)
It's weird that I manage to do that entire list of things without saying a word aloud.

It's luxury tech. That's where the market is.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by dwild on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @02:15PM (#21455629)
> It's weird that I manage to do that entire list of things without saying a word aloud.

That's a incredibly broad statement... anything you do can be done in another way which someone could define as luxury. I can churn butter, but I like the luxury to buy it instead, I expect you are the same ;).

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by nimajneb on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:29PM (#21454504)
If your phone has a mic, it's most likely also listening. Most new phones have the same technology as the smart speakers. And even if it doesn't have the feature, it's can still be compromised to be listening.
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by bduerst on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:52PM (#21454737)
By that logic, a TV remote control is "luxury tech".

VUI is just another new interface for devices that provides convenience.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by compiler-guy on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:53PM (#21454751)
Totally luxury tech. Just like nice phones, wide-screen TVs, and a million other things that people find useful, convenient, and fun.
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by babuskov on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:58PM (#21454814)
> They're terribly useful for listening to music, setting timers, alarms, reminders, checking weather, traffic, unit conversions, and just general web lookups.

In short: it enables people to get even more lazy. No wonder US has an obesity problem.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by icebraining on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @01:58PM (#21455453)
On the contrary, this is more useful for very active people, who use them for multitasking. People just sitting around browsing HN can already use the device they have at hand.
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by kiseleon on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @11:51AM (#21454110)
For me it is because when I am home I don't want to have to use my phone. I want to spend time with my family.

Every time I pull out my phone there is the temptation to check my email, message friends, etc.

But with my echo dot (or google home mini, I currently have both while I decide which to keep) I can control my lights by voice without missing a beat, I can play music for my kids to dance to without fumbling through an app, I can check the weather forecast while I'm digging through the coat closet, all without being distracted from what I'm doing and without any extra fluff.

I do not have any locks or security systems connected to them as I do not trust them that far, but for informational and recreational use they have made things considerably more convenient.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by ouid on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:01PM (#21454227)
how does not wanting to use your phone have anything to do with using a listening device to turn off your lights?
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by rtkwe on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:55PM (#21454769)
I don't see how it's not clear. Kiseleon wants the convenience features of various bits of smart home tech without having to use their phone to do it so that they can avoid the attention maw that is the cell phone.
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by ouid on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @01:12PM (#21454968)
That's not the parent comment's point at all. Parent comment is clearly arguing that the convenience provided by an alexa over having no smart home stuff at all is not worth the privacy invasion. Pointing out that you can accomplish the same thing with your phone only improves that position.
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by travbrack on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @11:37AM (#21453947)
There's already one in your pocket
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by temp2206 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @11:40AM (#21453984)
Also I believe it will move towards a voice free AI determined system. Because at some point in future decision making will be the toughest activity. (Currently moving and switching on buttons is)
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by bduerst on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:57PM (#21454803)
Yep, predictive decision making is the next steps. An example of this is on the newer versions of Android, where when you pull up the app tray, it predicts and shows which apps it thinks you're most likely to want to use based on datetime, location, connected peripherals, accelerometer (driving), etc. For the connected home it could be the same.
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by roywiggins on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @01:06PM (#21454901)
I use mine as a glorified internet radio. My grandparents use it as a glorified Clapper(tm) to switch room lights on and off.

If you can find a standalone internet radio that's as convenient as an Amazon Echo, please let me know. It's an underserved market.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by sparrish on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:01PM (#21454229)
Cause my kids need help spelling and I really suck at it.
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by engineer_22 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:36PM (#21454572)
Don't worry, neurodiversity is trending
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by gwbas1c on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @01:37PM (#21455255)
I find voice controls so frustrating that I don't see the appeal.

Maybe once "okay google" works correctly on my phone, I'll start using one of these.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by sp332 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @11:40AM (#21453982)
The ads make them look cool. Amazon puts them at the top of the site so it looks like they're popular and everyone wants one. The industrial design makes them super unobtrusive, and the cheerful voice comes off as ultra benign.
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by lostgame on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:18PM (#21454385)
Okay, but they’re still the largest global privacy violation technology in history...you couldn’t pay me to have one of these in my home, and I mean; a lot - you could offer me cash every month to keep this in my house and I would still say no.

These devices are as literally Big Brother as it gets.

I personally boycott Google products and do not purchase from Amazon. Google has gone from ‘don’t be evil’ to ‘be evil and pretend we’re still cool’.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by engineer_22 on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:34PM (#21454551)
Please forgive my tone, but it doesn't take a genius to recognize that you shouldn't have sensitive conversations around a microphone. Most of the things this appliance does are similar to the ones accomplished by a cell phone or computer. And like those things, the microphone works best when the device is connected to a power source.

When it comes down to it, we are all compromised, and it's just a question of what you are comfortable with. Some people choose not to use electricity at home, and yet they go on living. Your choices are your own, and of the billions of people you should take pride in your individuality and be comfortable in your choices.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by eeZah7Ux on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @01:23PM (#21455110)
> it doesn't take a genius to recognize that you shouldn't have sensitive conversations around a microphone

Stop this. You are putting blame on the end user for failing to understand complex security and privacy issues.

Also, this is an incorrect understanding of network economies and society.

"it doesn't take a genius" to carefully check a car for safety features, like having brakes. Yet there are regulations to protect car buyers.

Without the intervention of regulators we would not have safety belts and airbags.

Same for building safety. Food safety and so on.

The same goes for privacy. In a world where any device in your home has cameras and microphone it becomes impossible for a lone individual to push back.

You need a whole society to do that.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by lostgame on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @12:50PM (#21454719)
>> Please forgive my tone, but it doesn't take a genius to recognize that you shouldn't have sensitive conversations around a microphone.

Then, forgive my tone, but it doesn’t take a genius to understand that you don’t want one constantly monitoring you in your home. Where you have private conversations. This is my point.

These devices are physical spyware - they’re as useful and terrible as Bonzi Buddy but people pay for it.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by lostgame on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @01:05PM (#21454890)
To add, I’ve actually opened up my 2011 MacBook Pro and physically removed the wire connecting the microphone and video camera from the device.

I use TOR, for everything. Even basic browsing. I’ll take the performance hit any day.

I also disable JS on 90% of sites I visit.

I’ve stayed at an iPhone 6S that I could jailbreak to observe outgoing and incoming network information and block IPs where necessary, and redirect to TOR in the background.

I don’t keep Android devices and let all of my friends know about all the serious security risks involved, and beg them to at least get a refurbished iPhone instead.

I have friends in the psychedelic scene who literally text each other openly about LSD like total idiots when Signal is free.

I have friends who have ended up in prison, not even jail, from this kind of shit.

I talk about psychedelics, I talk about occultism, I talk about revolutionary political ideas, and I talk about private details like my sex life, comfortably, at home, as do many, many of my friends.

Having one of these devices in their home alone could be a ticket to jail or prison for them.

You’re telling me there are advantages for this shit? Because you can turn your lights on without having to grab your phone, or, God forbid, stand up and go flick a light switch, it’s worth it to have corporations listening in to all your shit?

You’ve obviously never had to watch a best friend dragged off by police due to getting nabbed by information grabbed through technology. Good for you! Have a cookie.

Some people are involved in progressing society beyond its pathetic, self destructive status-quo, to move the world forward, and we need privacy to do that.

If you wanna live your little work, wife, and kids life, where you’d never be concerned about a single thing you say while your Echo is around, go for it.

Myself? I actually intend to change the world while I’m on it. So no, I’m not alright with anyone listening in to what I’m doing.

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by goodpoint on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @02:04PM (#21455512)
> I’ve stayed at an iPhone 6S that I could jailbreak to observe outgoing and incoming network information and block IPs where necessary, and redirect to TOR in the background.

Do not redirect traffic from applications that have not been designed for Tor into the Tor network! They can leak all sort of data making it even worse than non-Tor traffic.

(BTW it's written Tor)

Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by closetohome on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @02:04PM (#21455509)
That's...very thorough of you.
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by lostgame on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @02:19PM (#21455658)
I can’t afford to take any chances.
Re:Laser-Based Audio Injection Attacks on Voice-Controllable... by bduerst on Tuesday November 05, 2019 @01:00PM (#21454827)
Do you leave your phone on when you're in your home too?