News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by mdorazio on Sunday November 03, 2019 @08:15AM (#21433674)
Wealth taxes might be the only way to avoid complete inequality in market-based systems [1]. Especially if the market is not growing for everyone. The wealthy kind of are an endless source of loot because the definition of wealthy is one relative to a median, so you'll either end up with everyone roughly equal in wealth (is that a bad thing?) or, more likely, over time new people will enter and exit the wealthy class due to various advantages and market dynamics so that there is an endless supply.

[1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-inequality-ine...

Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by Isinlor on Sunday November 03, 2019 @09:01AM (#21433914)
You should define what you mean by wealth. What does it mean that you will loot wealthy people? Will you eat shares of a company for breakfast? Will you burn cash in stove to warm your house?

Wealthy people control resources. You can take control from them, but it will not create more resources. One, fundamental resource is human labor. This resource will decline in proportion to the total human population whether it will be controlled by wealthy people or not.

Someone will need to physically do the work that needs to be done around old people. And there will be more old people, than there will be young people.

Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by mdorazio on Sunday November 03, 2019 @04:43PM (#21436841)
I'm not really following your question. The idea of a wealth tax is pretty straightforward. You take stock of a person's assets, take a percentage of that figure (say 1%) and send them a bill for that dollar amount. How they choose to pay that bill is entirely up to them - they can borrow against their assets, liquidate some of them, or use cash on hand. I don't really see how control of resources factors into the equation.
Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by Isinlor on Monday November 04, 2019 @05:19AM (#21440309)
Control of resources factors into the equation, because dollars are intrinsically worthless. If money have intrinsic value, why not to print 1 000 000 000$ on a bill and give one to everyone? Suddenly everyone would become a billionaire.

Your example is less extreme, but it is still about redistributing control. Redistributing dollars redistributes control of what people do, and how other resources are allocated.

This is related to the article, because moving control of people does not create more people. As population will be getting older, there will be more old people that less young people will need to take care of. This is a fact.

You could argue that redistributing wealth will lead to more efficient control of resources, and so it will make it easier to provide care. But it is still fundamentally about control of diminishing resources and increasing needs.

BTW - I'm Polish and my government tries to literally pay people for having children. Around 30 000$ spread across childhood (take into account that Poles earn a lot less than Americans), and while it put a small dent in fertility rate, the number of children born in Poland is currently lower than before introducing that program.

Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by MiroF on Sunday November 03, 2019 @09:47AM (#21434130)
> Wealthy people control resources.

Yes, it turns out that resources are actually the thing we need to sustain older people.

> Someone will need to physically do the work that needs to be done around old people.

Someone literally is already doing the work that needs to be done for old people. It's just that most of the wealth produced from that work goes to already wealthy people.

Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by brokenkebab on Monday November 04, 2019 @05:01PM (#21447005)
It's just that most of the wealth produced from that work goes to already wealthy people.

Exactly that work (social support, and healthcare for seniors) in total numbers consumes resources, not produces them. If it wouldn't be so there would be no need to fund it from taxes.

Frankly, it sounds like you rushed with a randomly chosen slogan to this thead.

Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by marcusverus on Sunday November 03, 2019 @09:02AM (#21433917)
You cannot destroy the incentive structure for economic activity (financial rewards) without catestrophic consequences. People don't pull start-up hours so that their neighbors can prosper, they do it for themselves. When you take away the possibility of great rewards, you destroy the incentive to add great value. See the entire history of collectivism.
Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by ClumsyPilot on Sunday November 03, 2019 @09:20AM (#21433994)
The conversation is about what's fair incentive structure, correcting it does not amount to its destruction.

Also we do not require people to pull startup hours, and only a minority of the population ever does that. I dont see how that comes into this conversation.

Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by marcusverus on Sunday November 03, 2019 @06:51PM (#21437640)
I'm not sure what conversation you're participating in, but the parent comment was flippantly discussing the possibility of taxes so draconain that the GIDI coefficient would approach zero:

"The wealthy kind of are an endless source of loot because the definition of wealthy is one relative to a median, so you'll either end up with everyone roughly equal in wealth (is that a bad thing?) "

In the world advocated for in that comment, with aggressively averaged out income/wealth, there is no incentive to produce value above what is required to reach the average income.

Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by MiroF on Sunday November 03, 2019 @10:52AM (#21434560)
It's a Rawlsian question of "how can we structure incentives such that everybody is better off?"

Now, the metric for "everybody is better off" is still an open problem, but there seem to be near pareto optimal steps we can take, like a high threshold wealth tax.

Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by MiroF on Sunday November 03, 2019 @09:48AM (#21434145)
A 2% wealth tax above a few hundred of millions of dollars doesn't destroy the incentive structure for economic activity, it is disingenuous to suggest it would.
Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by mrep on Sunday November 03, 2019 @10:45AM (#21434515)
I wouldn't say destroy, but it definitely distorts things and I would prepare for some unintended consequences. For example, it incentivizes those taxed by such a scheme to become citizens of low tax countries like new zealand where there is no wealth tax and even no cap gains tax, renounce their US citizenship, and move there. Peter thiel for example recently got a new zealand citizenship likely to prepare for such an event.
Re:Life Is a Ponzi Scheme (2009) by MiroF on Sunday November 03, 2019 @10:49AM (#21434544)
"New policy will have unintended consequences" is a pretty unassailable position and of course not one I disagree with. I don't think you can say apriori that it would cause more harm than good though.

I'm sure that gimmick-y things to avoid wealth redistribution can be legislated on as they have been in the past.