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Re:Online installment loans have taken the subprime market b... by lcall on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @03:01PM (#21390822)
Maybe instead of pointing out how foolish, we can positively encourage good behavior, and tell them "you can do it!", and be a true friend, encouraging them to manage finances better. For example, we should all have some emergency savings, then build our savings, and sacrifice conveniences or fun as needed to get out of debt. We would do well to create a culture of not being victimized or manipulated so much by advertising, and helping one another in that.

Resources include anything by Dave Ramsey (including possibly used books, DVDs, audio CDs on amazon: we bought some of these for ourselves, and to loan or give to children and others; no other affiliation), or free full BYU personal finance courses online at: https://personalfinance.byu.edu/ (I have not personally reviewed but some relatives have taken the actual classes and recommended this link.)

There are also some free in-person training programs in at least 2-3 cities, with a collaboration between my church and the NAACP, and related material online (not mine but very good), at https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng such as, specifially, https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topi... .

(Maybe I should add those notes/links to my web site, for more easily referring people... Edit: The above, combining freedom + chances to learn responsibility, is far better IMO than letting the federal government run more of our lives, badly, and without giving a choice what to do with those $. I have written more on that at http://lukecall.net under Other then Politics or such. ) (Edit: fixed a couple of links.)

Re:Online installment loans have taken the subprime market b... by jjeaff on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @03:11PM (#21390937)
I agree we should be teaching more financial literacy, but I think this, and most of these financial literacy courses, gloss over the realities of poverty.

An emergency fund is very important, but most people in poverty live in the red perpetually. There is never extra cash to save up. Any extra money is swiftly gobbled up by debtors who wait indefinitely for any money to show.

Which is actually one reason you will see some poor people make seemingly ridiculous purchases as soon as they get money. They know from experience that any extra cash on hand will get taken by creditors as soon as they detect it. So they spend it. At least, if you buy something of value, you can pawn it for cash later when you need it.

It's a terrible cycle.

Re:Online installment loans have taken the subprime market b... by lcall on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @03:16PM (#21391005)
I think there are ways out, that depend on desire and belief that it can be done. Knowing one's own worth (infinite, really) is key, I think. The links I mentioned link to other things that can help. Here is another: https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/development-... ...off that main "provident living" page: https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng

And there is more at my web site. I have spent a great deal of time thinking about all these things, and writing. I have learned some things for myself.

(edit: a correction: the "development counseling" appears to be for Church members. The "immigrant services" and many other things like those online materials, classes done with the NAACP are not limited to Church members: https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/immigrant-se... . Etc.)

Re:Online installment loans have taken the subprime market b... by jjeaff on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @06:58PM (#21392997)
Interesting, as a member myself, I hadn't heard of the immigrant services program.

And I agree, the poverty cycle is of course not inescapable. But boy is it a lot harder than I think those of us who have always been more fortunate think it is.

Re:Online installment loans have taken the subprime market b... by lcall on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @07:12PM (#21393080)
Just to confirm I am not making things from a standpoint of $ given to us: My grandparents were either both legally blind (one side, very poor and kids stressed out), or rather poor (especially compared to most americans today) farmers in Mexico with 13 children. The "privilege" I have enjoyed (other than skin/benefit of the doubt?--unsure since I probably don't fully understand that from everyone else's perspective: just acknowledging I don't know everything) is encouragement to work hard and that I could do it, during my whole upbringing. My dad was a school teacher (and part-time painter and newspaper deliverer) and my mom a full-time mom (stressful, but it sure helped us as kids to feel secure). Things were hard, but on we go, and I am grateful. Maybe rambling now.
Re:Online installment loans have taken the subprime market b... by jjeaff on Thursday October 31, 2019 @07:36PM (#21414910)
Encouragement to work hard and that you could do it is more than many, many in poverty get. 2 parents and the ability for one to be stay-at-home is also an amazing privilege.

Also, did your parents ever ask you for money? Because that is also a very frequent thing in poverty. Very needy parents that will be asking for, even expecting money the minute you have a little bit.

Re:Online installment loans have taken the subprime market b... by lcall on Friday November 01, 2019 @12:51PM (#21420923)
My dad found me simple employment at a very young age (delivering newspapers), which let me buy my own clothes, school stuff, etc. (edit: No, they didn't ask me for money. But you bet they would get it if they did.) But he also helped me in college a few times when $ was tight. But we had extremely frugal life habits, that came from the farming/broke years. And we prayed a lot, did what we knew we should. Additionally, we paid tithing, which has real promises of specific blessings, and we received those (we always had what we needed). I have learned for myself and now know God lives and answers prayers, which helped us much, and still does. More at lukecall.net .

(Edit: Actually, my parents still live frugally so they can help other people. I don't recall eating in a restaurant until I was a teenager on a date (though it probably happened, just very rarely); we had a garden which supplemented our food budget for a large family, television was not a key part of the lifestyle but chores were (it seemed my dad was always working some helpful task for the family, except on Sundays), we often bought clothes secondhand, and we knew we were loved. The advice I have given above and below in various parts of this discussion is what we did, and I never, ever felt deprived. Food was generally homemade (cold cereal only on Sundays; Mom learned to cook mostly after marriage, but they both learned very well IMO--I salivate as I think about it), we ate a lot of wheat and beans (but not only), some bought in bulk to save. And we were very blessed, again, praying daily as a family and trying to do what we knew we should. There are people who can help with individual situations, and much good advice at the sites I have linked. But the blessings of God are what I credit the most, by far. Again, more (skimmable), at lukecall.net, a simple site with no sales or javascript.)

(We were/are far from perfect, and yes life has big challenges, but we definitely are trying, and we know what direction we should be pointed in. There is peace, direction, and connection with God available to those who want it enough to act and keep trying. My email contact is on that web site for further questions; am happy to try to answer. The more I think of it all the more I am grateful.)

Re:Online installment loans have taken the subprime market b... by bcrosby95 on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @03:29PM (#21391109)
If you make little enough and live in a major metro area its pretty easy to burn through any savings you have. I have several friends now in their 40s now that used to continually cycle the steps of: lost job -> spent savings -> debt -> got job -> payoff debt -> generate savings -> lost job -> ...

At some point they just lost hope. I can't blame them for racking up debt if the system lets them continue. It sounds better to continually pay off debt and enjoy life instead of to continually pay off debt and not enjoy it.

Re:Online installment loans have taken the subprime market b... by lcall on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @06:53PM (#21392964)
I am not selling anything (maybe some software someday, but that's a different topic). But I think about things like this a lot and have posted many thoughts, over time. I hope you don't mind but this is my best work in this area, so far, over some years.

(Truly, we do not need to be alone, or give up. I have been thru many things that ... leave me grateful now. So I hope this can be useful to someone....)

There are people who can help, with guidance, and in other ways. One list (many resources): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854601245.html . Another (having the Church as help in life): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854581807.html . Another: extended family. Another (general life lessons and resources found, including overcoming addictions, but much more): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854592298.html . Another (pray): http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854585359.html . I have learned by long and much-repeated personal experience (the easy way and the hard way) that prayer makes a huge difference, if we are willing to do our part and be obedient to God when we know what we should be doing: http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854580889.html . And how I learned that: http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587400.html . More resources (better than the above stuff): https://providentliving.churchofjesuschrist.org/?lang=eng

Wishing the best for everyone in tough circumstances (which seems to be all of us at one time or another)!

(edits: minor fixes, add the providentliving.org url.)

Re:Online installment loans have taken the subprime market b... by sharkmerry on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @12:05PM (#21399189)
Is this SEO spam? Every comment seems to have numerous links in it
Re:Online installment loans have taken the subprime market b... by lcall on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @02:22PM (#21400835)
No (but I can see why you ask). It is my simple attempt to share info that helps people. I have put a lot of work into it, and each part seemed relevant to the discussion (which is what motivated me). It is easier than posting the notes every time. Again, there is nothing for sale there. If you look at the material and have suggestions for how best to answer questions without pasting long paragraphs I have already put elsewhere, or other suggestions, I appreciate that.
Re:Online installment loans have taken the subprime market b... by lcall on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @02:24PM (#21400860)
Maybe an alternative could have been to make one page with all those on it, so just one link (but I was getting tired). :) Edit: Another way to see it is: I have a lot to say, but rather than put it all here, I link to it, when it seems relevant and like it could be helpful.