News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by AlexTWithBeard on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:26AM (#21386327)
My business can't survive unless my employees are living in poverty

Another way of looking at this would be: a job in McDonalds is not supposed to be a means of supporting the family of four. It's a side gig for teenagers, not a "full-scale" job.

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by pytester on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:57AM (#21386573)
>Another way of looking at this would be: a job in McDonalds is not supposed to be a means of supporting the family of four.

Supposed by whom? McDonalds will suggest it's best their jobs be seen as side gigs for teenagers because that's the explanation that best supports their profit margins. The reality is that families of four will have to be supported by McDonalds wages if no other jobs are available for the individual in question.

Another way of looking at it is: what percentage of citizens do you think society should artificially inhibit from being able to support children? Is it 5%? 20%?

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by cooljacob204 on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:31AM (#21386371)
That is not the reality of it unfortunately. Might be a side gig for teenage you, but not everyone has the education or network to do better.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by thrower123 on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:42AM (#21386451)
That is the tragedy of the next couple decades that needs to be solved. What do you do with the increasing share of people that do not have the capabilities to be productive in the economy?
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by cooljacob204 on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @11:37AM (#21388364)
Just because it's a low skillcap job does not mean they are being unproductive.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by AlexTWithBeard on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:55AM (#21386547)
Teach a profession at school?
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by SketchySeaBeast on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @09:38AM (#21386975)
Which profession? All of them? Who pays for that sort of support in school? And given that there are only so many hours in the day, what do we lose? Do we need even more of our soft skills and arts removed as we build a society solely around getting people into a career and keeping them there? Are we OK with people who don't understand history or geography because they don't need really need those skills as plumbers?

And wasn't a high school education good enough 50 years ago for most positions? Companies have been able to force the burden of debt for gaining the skills required for a job onto the individual, through exorbitant college fees and unpaid internships, now you're advocating the government should take on the specialization that the private industries require?

As a college student one is barely able to figure out their interests - there's so much push to start planning well in advance, I have no idea how we can expect a tween to commit to a career path.

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by alfromspace on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @09:49AM (#21387104)
What do you do with the increasing share of people that do not have the capabilities to be productive in the economy?

Nothing, then import twenty million more of them?

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by goodcharles on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:30AM (#21386366)
Teenagers aren't available until, what, 4PM? Who is supposed to run the restaurant the first 12 hrs of every day?
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by AlexTWithBeard on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @09:06AM (#21386644)
Stay-at-home moms?
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by SolaceQuantum on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @10:08AM (#21387315)
But mothering is a full time job. That's kind of the point of the SAHM- a human adult must be around regularly a child below a certain age. At least half a decade. Often closer to a full decade. I don't think leaving for a shift every day or even a shift multiple times a week is feasible for a parent of a child below a certain age.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by ddnb on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @10:14AM (#21387380)
But once they start working they aren't stay-at-home moms anymore.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by bart_spoon on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @10:11AM (#21387350)
Then they aren't stay-at-home moms, are they?
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by jaredandrews on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @10:01AM (#21387239)
From the source of the clowns mouth:

- What is the average age of a McDonald's employee?

- The average age of an 'hourly-paid' employee is 20. You might like to know that we employ 120,000 people of all ages, from school leaving age to people in their 80s. We're also one of the biggest providers of first-time jobs in the U.K.

https://www.mcdonalds.com/gb/en-gb/help/faq/18338-what-is-th...

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by smileysteve on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @09:23AM (#21386803)
> It's a side gig for teenagers, not a "full-scale" job.

It would make sense if the minimum wage for "teenagers" jobs had kept up with the cost of college tuition, or even the increases in costs of a used car or insurance over the last 10 years.

Some teenagers in impoverished areas are helping their parents make ends meet too; others are emancipated and need a living wage.

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by david38 on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:52AM (#21386526)
The minimum wage by definition was designed to allow a man to provide a family of four with a “modest living”.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by AlexTWithBeard on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:56AM (#21386564)
I think that's the definition of "living wage".
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by interactivecode on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @09:26AM (#21386829)
why would minimum wage be less than living wage? everything below living wage should be called poverty
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by whoopdedo on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @10:06AM (#21387284)
I did a very brief dig into historical justifications for the minimum wage. One thing I wanted to check is if "living wage" was a more modern term, but both were in use 100 years ago.

The writing of the time speaks of minimum wage as a worker health and safety issue. The first minimum wage laws in the U.S. only applied to women and children. As part of the labor movement, it was often described as a type of collective bargaining. Where it was seen as providing a living wage was not directly at the minimum wage but because of the inflation effect it would have on more skilled wages. That by raising the wage floor, the industries in which a head of household would be employed in would have to raise their pay accordingly to that of a living wage.

So there's truth that minimum wages weren't introduced to be living wages themselves. At the same time that was 100 years ago and we shouldn't be writing laws for today based on the assumptions of the 1900's.

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by Endy on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @10:09AM (#21387320)
I'm on mobile, so I can't go looking up the exact quote. But, per FDR - the greatest President and greatest American - any business that relies on paying less than a living wage has no right to exist in this country. And a living wage isn't just basic subsistence, but the wages of a decent living.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by lwelyk on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @09:30AM (#21386866)
That's not remotely true. If the fast food sector was "meant for teenagers" they wouldn't open until like 4 pm when school was out.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by gwd on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @11:00AM (#21387895)
> It's a side gig for teenagers, not a "full-scale" job.

Then make the minimum wage for <18s $8/hr, and the minimum wage for >18s (or maybe >22s) $15/hr.

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by tanilama on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:40AM (#21386438)
True. It is not like McDonald's is already pushing for those self-order kiosks.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by mtbcoder on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @09:36AM (#21386934)
It's not true, it's just a trite, condescending right-wing talking point repeated ad nauseum all over the Web whenever a discussion of minimum wage pops up.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by namarie on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @10:16AM (#21387398)
And yet the reality of it is different. Are the people who work there deserving of not being able to survive reasonably?

Secondly, why should teenagers have to work in the first place, instead of studying?