News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by navigatesol on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:17AM (#21386265)
>I'm always bemused by the arguments against minimum wages, they almost always boil down to "My business can't survive unless my employees are living in poverty." which, in reality for a lot of businesses, is "I won't be as profitable if I have to pay a living wage".

There are some jobs that don't create $15/hour in value. Why is that hard to imagine? Minimum wage dictates that those jobs and the products they provide will not exist. Whether you think that's a net benefit to society is another question.

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by TeMPOraL on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:35AM (#21386402)
"Value" in economics is somewhat arbitrary. When both you and all your competitors have to pay at least $15/hour for a necessary piece work, you'll all pass the cost onto the consumer and suddenly the work will be creating $15/hour in value.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by barry-cotter on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:44AM (#21386480)
No, because all of the people who were marginal customers will just forgo your product or service. You can pass on all of an increase in costs for goods with price inelastic demand. If demand is elastic you either have to eat the margin or go out of business.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by tanilama on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:48AM (#21386495)
It doesn't work that way either. Consumers are not suddenly going to have more to spend due to hike of minimum wage.

If the inflation keeps low, total amount of money in the economy is relative constant, thus the cake is not getting much bigger, increasing minimum wage is going to reduce the number of jobs in the sector that is paying previous the minimum wage.

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by pzh on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:49AM (#21386511)
But then you’re just increasing inflation, and the people you pay $15/hour end up having the same purchasing power as before.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by gldalmaso on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @09:52AM (#21387138)
This seems to assume that every good purchased is created by a minimum wage work force. That not being the case, the minimum wage work force purchasing power increases for everything else that is imported or produced by a higher wage work force.
Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by pytester on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @09:19AM (#21386760)
>There are some jobs that don't create $15/hour in value. Why is that hard to imagine?

Because those jobs don't disappear when that minimum wage is raised. This has been tested by comparing the job differences across state borders where the minimum wage has been raised on one side but not the other (Dube/Lester/Reich and Card/Krueger).

>Minimum wage dictates that those jobs and the products they provide will not exist

The reality is that that it tends to dictate whether cashflow is funneled into profit margins or wages.

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by navigatesol on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @12:36PM (#21389084)
>Because those jobs don't disappear when that minimum wage is raised.

Yeah, input costs have no effect on whether a business can operate at the margin...

>This has been tested...

If we suddenly care about what the economic research says, you should do a search for papers that don't confirm your biases.

How the fact that raising labour costs will reduce the demand for labour is controversial is beyond belief, truly. We have social programs here in Canada that do exactly this: subsidize wages of employees in certain industries because the value that the labour of some people doesn't cover the costs. But hey, what do we know up here...

I guess this mentality comes from the new wave of socialism or comes from people who have never run a business in their lives.

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by pytester on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @06:41AM (#21396221)
>Yeah, input costs have no effect on whether a business can operate at the margin

They can but that's obviously a rather different question.

>If we suddenly care about what the economic research says, you should do a search for papers that don't confirm your biases.

I have.

>How the fact that raising labour costs will reduce the demand for labour is controversial is beyond belief

Why is it so hard to believe that demand for minimum waged labor is very inelastic?

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by navigatesol on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @11:26AM (#21398750)
>They can but that's obviously a rather different question.

How is this a "different question"? It's the question. If there are businesses that can be economically profitable paying $14/hour, but minimum wage rises to $15/hour, those businesses are no longer viable.

We can argue about how many of those businesses there are, but it's merely a fact that they exist at the margin. If you've ever run a small business yourself, you'll understand how small changes in the cost of labour can be painful. I'm not talking about about McDonald's or Walmart here.

Again, we have social programs in my country to alleviate these issues. And they work.

>Why is it so hard to believe that demand for minimum waged labor is very inelastic?

So businesses optimize for the number of people employed, regardless of prevailing wages? I don't buy that, sorry.

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by pytester on Wednesday October 30, 2019 @12:27PM (#21399474)
>How is this a "different question"?

Because most businesses make profits so it's perfectly possible to raise input prices without them closing.

>We can argue about how many of those businesses there are

That's what we were doing. The answer was "not a statistically significant amount".

>If you've ever run a small business yourself, you'll understand how small changes in the cost of labour can be painful.

I understand all too well the kind of caterwauling that happens when you do something that could threaten the profits of any business.

>Again, we have social programs in my country to alleviate these issues.

And a historically high % of profit to GDP, so maybe we can give some of those programs a break and take the money from a sector of the economy that is actually flush with cash.

>So businesses optimize for the number of people employed, regardless of prevailing wages?

Absolutely they do, yes!

Re:$15 minimum wage didn’t hurt NYC restaurants by smudgymcscmudge on Tuesday October 29, 2019 @08:28AM (#21386351)
There are also people who aren’t capable of producing $15 of value in an hour. A $15 minimum wage means they are less likely to be employed.