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Re:After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Prote... by runarberg on Monday October 28, 2019 @03:23PM (#21380551)
If people don’t follow traffic signals it is the fault of the signals. That is, if everybody makes the same mistake, it is no individuals fault, but a fault in the system.

To give a more concrete example. Say a traffic light has a pedestrian light attached. It will only allow pedestrian crossings when it does not stop the flow of vehicular traffic (say every 3-5 min, and only for 20 seconds at a time). But it does so regardless of actual traffic (no cars are passing the intersection when many pedestrians arrive), you can’t really blame the pedestrians of ruling this system as stupid and opting not to follow it.

Re:After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Prote... by fennecfoxen on Monday October 28, 2019 @03:38PM (#21380707)
> That is, if everybody makes the same mistake

Who says it's a mistake?

It has nothing to do with the signals and everything to do with the pedestrians. If you actually want people to respect the signals, place traffic police on every corner in Manhattan and issue jaywalking tickets to absolutely everyone, for months on end, and you'll see it. (You'll also see a backlash.)

Other than that, it's not happening.

Re:After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Prote... by selectodude on Monday October 28, 2019 @05:23PM (#21381849)
Giuliani already tried that. People didn't respect the signals.

https://www.nytimes.com/1998/01/13/nyregion/with-higher-fine...

Re:After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Prote... by fennecfoxen on Thursday November 07, 2019 @09:05AM (#21473258)
Wasn't enough. You need to ticket someone every single time, or close to it. (The amount of the ticket hardly matters, it's the consistency.)

(You will notice this idea is unworkable due to excessive manpower requirements. It is undesirable for other reasons as well.)

Re:After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Prote... by k_ on Monday October 28, 2019 @03:38PM (#21380720)
No. I don't care if a security system is not highly efficient in letting everyone moving around. It's not the point anyway.

That's the kind of thinking that makes our roads so deadly. If a rule in particular seems really silly to you, file a complaint / suggest a change so that it takes more parameters into account but until it is changed, stick to it. Loose some seconds or even minutes, I don't really care. These security rules should be followed by everyone, and people with your line of thinking shouldn't be allowed to own a car.

Re:After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Prote... by stefan_ on Monday October 28, 2019 @04:00PM (#21380973)
No, what makes our roads deadly is cars. Things with engines in them that can power a street of suburban homes. Never pedestrians.
Re:After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Prote... by k_ on Monday October 28, 2019 @05:23PM (#21381848)
My comment applies to cars too (if not mainly to cars). I'm not blaming pedestrians (I realize it wasn't obvious at all), I'm blaming all that ignore rules on the road and make these safety rules even less efficient because of the unpredictability. (edit: though of course cars & other vehicules make it far more dangerous)

I'm not a fan of cars already, but people driving cars while following safety rules only when it suits them is what make them a lot more deadly imo.

Re:After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Prote... by neves on Monday October 28, 2019 @04:10PM (#21381075)
Crosswalks are the sign. Pedestrians have preference and almost all the world cars must stop when there is a pedestrian in a crosswalk. There are places where people doesn't even take the eyes from their phone while stepping in a crosswalk.
Re:After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Prote... by mieseratte on Monday October 28, 2019 @03:38PM (#21380713)
> you can’t really blame the pedestrians of ruling this system as stupid and opting not to follow it.

Sure I can, they have a shit culture with little regard for traffic signals. My city has the same problem. I'm the odd man out for waiting for a signal, and am mocked for it at times. Nothing wrong with the signals or timing as a pedestrian (as a cyclist that's another story), but people feel they are more important. That they're 15 - 90 seconds is worth more.

Similarly, had a man recklessly pass me in his vehicle while I was biking to work yesterday. He went fully into the oncoming well above the posted speed limit, and cut me off as I was turning from the forward-moving lane into the left-hand turning lane. All to get around me to a red light.

Some people feel their 15 seconds are more valuable than others safety. In the case of pedestrian jaywalking, that their safety isn't worth the inconvenience of using the nearest crosswalk.