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Re:Blurring the Line Between User and Programmer by TheOtherHobbes on Friday October 25, 2019 @11:02AM (#21355683)
It's very hard to do high-quality generative art/music/poetry/anything without a complete model of human cultural associations, perceptions, and metaphorical frameworks for conceptualisation.

As you say, most generative work is empty because it's just form. Human creators manipulate form to communicate content. There's a message, and art is judged as much on the sophistication of the message as on the form it's carried in.

Form without content can be an interesting technical experiment, but it's culturally massless and kind of boring. Not to mention wrong in a destabilising way - like someone speaking random syllables that make occasional sense, but don't form a coherent message.

So the most successful generative work cheats by automating processes of cultural reference - like style transfer - or by adding levels of formal complexity that would be very difficult to handle by hand, but can at least produce something that seems a little original and surprising.

The less successful work doesn't even get that far.

Automated software generation is going to have similar problems. You have to parse intent, and then balance it against practicality. Getting that right is so hard humans really struggle with it, so I can't see machines being better at it any time soon.

Re:Blurring the Line Between User and Programmer by ScottBurson on Friday October 25, 2019 @05:51PM (#21359595)
> Form without content can be an interesting technical experiment, but it's culturally massless and kind of boring. Not to mention wrong in a destabilising way - like someone speaking random syllables that make occasional sense, but don't form a coherent message.

Couldn't read that without being reminded of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisencolinensinainciusol

As the composer says, "I thought that I would write a song which would only have as its theme the inability to communicate. And to do this, I had to write a song where the lyrics didn't mean anything." If you haven't heard it, pull it up on YouTube — it's quite an experience.

Re:Blurring the Line Between User and Programmer by Izkata on Saturday October 26, 2019 @12:37AM (#21361748)
...actually, there is one part of programming which already fits that description perfectly: Tuning some badly-performing SQL.

Seriously, look at the EXPLAIN of a complicated postgres query - hash joins, index scans, bitmap heap scans, materializing intermediate tables, and so on - it does the described conversion of high-level SQL to some really complicated code, and someone with in-depth knowledge can later use the plan to tweak the database or query to improve performance.

Re:Blurring the Line Between User and Programmer by AnimalMuppet on Friday October 25, 2019 @12:25PM (#21356559)
Aha! You perfectly expressed why I'm turned off by much of modern art - it's form, but no content (though sometimes the lack of content is the content, in a meta way, but it still makes for boring art).