News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:React Concurrent Mode by XCSme on Thursday October 24, 2019 @05:31PM (#21349411)
Yes, I think the problem is in way the current web ecosystem is evolving. People notice shortcomings of current browsers, they create frameworks that add the needed functionality (usually in a really hacky way that adds a lot of complexity and creates new problems), browsers acknowledge the potential feature (... wait 5-10 years...) feature is implemented, said framework becomes redundant and everyone now has to learn a shiny new framework.

The saddest part is that the shortcoming that the initial framework tries to solve is, most of the times, insignificant compared to the complexity that the framework is adding.

The truth is that we are all just "play-testers". We keep mocking new browser features, put them in the real world, test them, and then browsers can easily decide what features really provide value and should be implemented.

The real problem is that this is a never-ending cycle. We started to like this creation of new features so much that we never really focus on what we have and try to make the most out of it. We keep adding bloat to fix imaginary problems, when we already have all the tools that we need. I am not referring to new functionality, such as Web Payments or OffscreenCanvas, but to frameworks that try to mimic what the browsers are doing and just do it in a slightly better way.

Re:React Concurrent Mode by _bxg1 on Thursday October 24, 2019 @05:35PM (#21349446)
> The real problem is that this is a never-ending cycle.

That's where I disagree. I think the web was fundamentally unsuited to the "application" use-case and has been making its way in that direction for 5-10 years now. I think once we reach that destination, the churn will drop off dramatically. The platform will become enough, for the most part, and we may shrug off the need for comprehensive "frameworks" altogether in favor of simple libraries, like most other language ecosystems.

Re:React Concurrent Mode by XCSme on Thursday October 24, 2019 @05:47PM (#21349538)
I do feel that the application use-case has already been reached, yet I do not think this cycle speed is going to change. I do hope that at some point this will stop as this cycle is wasting way too many human brain resources which could be otherwise used on more interesting problems.
Re:React Concurrent Mode by _bxg1 on Thursday October 24, 2019 @05:54PM (#21349597)
> I do feel that the application use-case has already been reached

It clearly hasn't though, as demonstrated by this very OP ;)

Everything people are complaining about here, in addition to the problem being addressed by Concurrency Mode, are things that writers of native apps don't have to fight with:

- Lack of concurrency

- Complex, layered build systems

- Several layers of syntax transformation as an industry baseline

- Lack of a consistent story for modules

- Overall jank-proneness

- Platform bloat like that in Electron

But then why re-solve all these problems if you can just build a native app? Because native platforms over the decades have repeatedly tried and failed to a) be truly cross-platform and b) have truly flexible, well-documented layout systems. The web gives us those. We just have to go back in and add the things it lacks.

When all of these problems have been solved and a new framework is still coming out every week, then we can talk about frivolous effort being expended. Until then these are real, worthwhile problems being worked on.

Re:React Concurrent Mode by bryanrasmussen on Thursday October 24, 2019 @07:16PM (#21350150)
I agree that native platforms have failed to give us the things that the web platform gives us, and that we want those things in our solutions, but it does not mean that we will ever actually be able to add in the things that the web lacks - I suppose that we will be able to but I must also entertain the possibility that there is some mutually contradictory thing in the two paradigms that we are not seeing.