News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by Tuna-Fish on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @11:52AM (#21325100)
No. Starlink will follow all local laws, including licensing the bandwidth they are using. They are not going to run a pirate internet network.

Due to complications in US laws, this actually means that Starlink cannot directly offer service in much of the world, instead having to let a local company resell access. (Because SpaceX as a US company cannot do certain kinds of filtering without running afoul of US laws.)

Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by mrtksn on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @12:13PM (#21325375)
How do the satellites know the precise location of the client? Wouldn't it possible to buy a subscription in one country and go use it in another country?
Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by ctdonath on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @12:41PM (#21325720)
Starlink animations depict each sat servicing a narrow cone below. Remember, these operate much closer to the ground than geosynchronous; they'll have a much better idea where the client is than just which hemisphere.
Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by jupp0r on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @12:45PM (#21325781)
Radio wave propagation is a little more complicated than what the animations depict. It would probably be easy to pretend to be somewhere else by pointing a more directional antenna at the horizon.
Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by Tuna-Fish on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @02:20PM (#21326958)
All Starlink communication is already extremely directional. The spot size of the beam coming from the satellite is ~1.5km on the ground, and the receiver is also directional with similar accuracy. The entire principle of Starlink is based on extreme SDMA.

If you try to communicate with a satellite on the horizon, you will not hear it, and it will not listen to you.

Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by mrtksn on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @03:48PM (#21327812)
I checked it out, it says each satellite covers area with 550km diameter on the land. That's about a few countries at a time and possibly deep penetration into the larger ones.

They will have to turn off the sattelites over Austria to prevent connections in Turkey.

Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by ctdonath on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @04:06PM (#21328005)
1.5km vs 550km is not necessarily mutually exclusive when using phased array antenna: the beam may be 1.5km wide, but it may be steered across a 550km area. Ergo sat could service both Austria and Turkey, without blurring - it knows which country it's "pointing" at during any millisecond, so could service each without legal conflicts.
Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by mrtksn on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @04:49PM (#21328363)
Can you provide a source for the 1.5km beam claim?
Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by Tuna-Fish on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @05:12PM (#21328548)
I was actually wrong. The spot size is 1.5 degrees, or ~10km.

The source is the original Starlink FCC filing: https://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/8174403/S...

But the point remains: The Starlink satellites do not just radiate omnidirectionally. Nor could they; the system is intended to eventually serve a meaningful fraction of the entire population on earth. This is not possible on non-steered RF. The only reason their plan has any sense is that every transmitter and receiver is directional, allowing efficient SDMA, where the same frequency can be used by multiple people simultaneously to communicate withe the same satellite, because the satellite can discriminate between their signals by the direction from which they were received.

Because of this, in order for Starlink to be able to communicate with you, it has to have a pretty good idea of where you are.

Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by mrtksn on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @05:25PM (#21328634)
Can you quote the information? I couldn't find this in the document. I am sceptical that they can have that narrow beams and track the users(as the sattelite passes over them) from non-geostationary low earth orbit satellites. I would like to investigate this.
Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by Tuna-Fish on Wednesday October 23, 2019 @02:25AM (#21331670)
From A2: overall description:

> Advanced phased array beam-forming and digital processing technologies within the satellite payload give the system the ability to make highly efficient use of Ku- and Ka-band spectrum resources and the flexibility to share that spectrum with other licensed users. User terminals operating with the SpaceX System will use similar phased array technologies to allow for highly directive, steered antenna beams that track the system’s low-Earth orbit satellites. Gateway earth stations also apply advanced phased array technologies to generate high-gain steered beams to communicate with multiple NGSO satellites from a single gateway site.

Details of the downlink beams is found at A3:

> All Ku-band downlink spot beams on each SpaceX satellite are independently steerable over the full field of view of the Earth.

Just read the entire A3.1 for more details.

Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by Tuna-Fish on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @04:49PM (#21328360)
They use steerable beams. The spot size of the beam is just 1.5 km across.

(edit: I remembered wrong. 1.5 degrees, or at 550km, ~10 kilometers.)

Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by SiempreViernes on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @12:31PM (#21325601)
Well, if you are going to demand payment of the service you need to be able to ID each client, so just apply filtering according to the rules for the country of that user.

Also, you presumably keep track of where your antenna is pointing anyway.

Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by mrtksn on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @12:43PM (#21325739)
See, this is very easy to overcome. In Eastern Europe, the mafia will start a re-sell operation by opening an account to every single babushka and smuggling the devices alongside with the contraband cigarettes.

I find it very interesting because the governments see the control(or lack of) of the internet as an existential issue.

I am hoping for a censor-fee internet but I don't believe that it's possible. Someone will blow up these satellites if anyone happens to create a free(as in freedom) global communication network.

Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by ohitsdom on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @12:56PM (#21325923)
Since these satellites are in low earth orbit, the satellites currently overhead will be changing very frequently. It's possible the satellites will actually not transmit at all over certain countries. The receivers will also know their location based on what's currently overhead.

This is all technical assumptions at this point since the service isn't rolled out, but being in LEO instead of GEO simplifies things greatly.

Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by gizmo385 on Tuesday October 22, 2019 @04:28PM (#21328182)
> but being in LEO instead of GEO simplifies things greatly

It may simplify some things, but it also introduces lots of complications like managing satellite handovers, telemetry tracking for thousands of satellites, accident avoidance in space, etc.

Re:Elon Musk tweets using SpaceX’s Starlink satellite internet by ohitsdom on Thursday October 24, 2019 @08:12AM (#21343800)
Absolutely. I meant simplifying in response to the OP's question- detecting a receiver's location.