News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:A cartoon intro to DNS over HTTPS (2018) by teddyh on Sunday October 20, 2019 @07:45AM (#21303546)
Once your ISP starts mucking with and blocking your traffic, what you need is a VPN and/or Tor – DoH is a very partial solution at best. What DoH gives you is merely a correct answer to a DNS lookup of an IP address. But if your ISP blocks traffic to that IP address, which they could, you’re still blocked; DoH did not help you.
Re:A cartoon intro to DNS over HTTPS (2018) by judge2020 on Sunday October 20, 2019 @08:29AM (#21303705)
The ISP is trying to block other DNS traffic, they're not necessarily trying to block certain websites (or if they are, they wouldn't want to block [for example] all of Cloudflare or the GCP load balancers to block porn hosted on either of those services). DoH solves that problem as directly as possible without going to solutions that have other side-effects.
Re:A cartoon intro to DNS over HTTPS (2018) by teddyh on Sunday October 20, 2019 @08:43AM (#21303771)
The ISP do most certainly want to block web sites. The currently most common method is to block DNS, but they could, and will, switch to IP blocking in a heartbeat if they have to.

> they wouldn't want to block [for example] all of Cloudflare or the GCP load balancers

If your only defense against blocking by your ISP is to centralize web server hosting, then you’re just moving the problem to there instead. Cloudflare also blocks, or “deplatforms”, those they deem unseemly. And once someone is taken off the centralized web server hosts, they can be blocked by your ISP again. You’re not solving the problem in the long term.

DoH is fighting yesterday’s war.

Re:A cartoon intro to DNS over HTTPS (2018) by oskapt on Sunday October 20, 2019 @08:47AM (#21303786)
Tor has limited value. Lots of things are blocked (search, for example), and it's slower than dialup. The security of the exit points is also questionable, and this is about trust.

Pushing all traffic through a VPN only moves the problem. Now I have to trust some unknown entity in some other country to respect my privacy. I don't want my traffic to bounce from Chile to Norway and then back to Chile when I do online banking. I run a VPN endpoint in Chile for my own traffic, but I don't need to push all of my home traffic through it....yet.

All useful traffic runs over HTTPS already, but metadata is still valuable. My ISP could snag SNI headers and know sites, but I don't think they're actively sniffing 100% of the traffic that goes across the wire. No, I think they want to be Verisign/Comcast/OpenDNS and redirect NXDOMAIN responses to ad pages or inject false responses to "unauthorized" queries.

Re:A cartoon intro to DNS over HTTPS (2018) by teddyh on Sunday October 20, 2019 @10:09AM (#21304238)
> Tor [is] slower than dialup.

That was true years ago, but nowadays I rarely percieve any speed difference at all when comparing browsing using Tor and non-Tor.

> Pushing all traffic through a VPN only moves the problem. Now I have to trust some unknown entity in some other country to respect my privacy.

But, and here’s the crucial difference: with VPNs you have a choice. A wide variety of choice. With ISPs, especially in the US, not so much.

> All useful traffic runs over HTTPS already, but metadata is still valuable. My ISP could snag SNI headers and know sites,

That’s due to be fixed with ESNI. Just wait for a technical fix.

> but I don't think they're actively sniffing 100% of the traffic that goes across the wire. No, I think they want to be Verisign/Comcast/OpenDNS and redirect NXDOMAIN responses to ad pages or inject false responses to "unauthorized" queries.

That is true today, but when DoH and/or DoT happens, the ISPs will certainly switch to doing whatever still works. They are merely sniffing and proxying DNS traffic today because it still works, but the second it no longer works, they will switch to whatever does work. You can’t just work around the current mechanisms, you have to look a few more moves ahead.