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Re:Americans Now Need at Least $500k a Year to Enter Top 1% by onlyrealcuzzo on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @08:42PM (#21277813)
Exactly.

For example, if you have a $10M net-worth, according to Gabriel Zucman & Thomas Piketty, you get higher returns on average than the little guy. Not sure the exact number, but let's say an ~8% return on average (believe it's higher).

You would make ~$800K a year in "capital gains" and pay $133K in federal taxes. If you earned $500k in income, you'd pay ~$164K in federal taxes. You'd pay another ~$35k+ in states most people live in for about a 39.8% tax rate. Not to mention, your employer is paying another 5% in payroll taxes to employ you. So, really, it's a 44.8% tax.

But if your income comes from "capital gains" instead of working, you'd pay less than half that percentage in tax -- at 16.25%.

Why is there a distinction between "capital gains" and dividends and fixed income? Because only the very wealthy get most of their income from capital gains.

Even people with $1-5M in wealth... they're mostly the people that worked really hard and still got a little lucky with their investments. They're almost all old. They've paid off their house. So... 1) most of their wealth is tied up in their house, and 2) most of what's left over is tied up in fixed income like bonds -- which are taxed as "income" and not "capital gains".

Re:Americans Now Need at Least $500k a Year to Enter Top 1% by MR4D on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @10:46PM (#21278495)
If you invested it in muni bonds, you would pay zero tax.

(Ignoring state incomes tax of course. Since I live in Texas, I’m lucky enough to do that).

Re:Americans Now Need at Least $500k a Year to Enter Top 1% by gitgudnubs on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @08:53PM (#21277896)
Your calculations are based on an erroneous model. Corporate profits are taxed twice. The effective tax rate of dividends can be as high as 39.8%. I'm not sure what typical numbers are, because I couldn't find 2018 data, and 2017 data predates significant tax cuts.
Re:Americans Now Need at Least $500k a Year to Enter Top 1% by onlyrealcuzzo on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @09:04PM (#21277962)
Did you read my comment? Dividends are considered income! Capital gains is a different thing, and the distinction exists largely because only a small subset of the population has the ability to make a lot of money from capital gains -- because, by its nature, it requires a lot of capital...
Re:Americans Now Need at Least $500k a Year to Enter Top 1% by vonmoltke on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @09:14PM (#21278019)
Qualified dividends are taxed as capital gains.

Capital gains are income and reported on Form 1040. What they are not is "ordinary income" subject to the income tax table. A person with $700k on capital gains is well inside the top 1% of income.

Re:Americans Now Need at Least $500k a Year to Enter Top 1% by lumost on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @10:28PM (#21278400)
It doesn't really matter too much if it's taxed twice, the majority of people with 10 million dollars in a portfolio are passive investors of whatever liquid and hedgeable assets are available.

The complaint at issue is that a passive investor who happened to have 10 million dollars that they inherited at 30, sticks it in betterment for 50 years while drawing a top 1% of income 380k for expenses ( accounting for tax rate ) will eventually have 130 million dollars. They can easily pass this amount down to children at estate tax rates to enable the next generation to do nothing as well, or they could use any one of a number of tax sheltering methods to avoid or defray the estate tax as well.

Generational wealth, or "idle wealth" has been a concern in the US from Thomas Jefferson onward - capital gains taxes are merely one mechanism to restrict it.

Re:Americans Now Need at Least $500k a Year to Enter Top 1% by vonmoltke on Thursday October 17, 2019 @08:00AM (#21281071)
> It doesn't really matter too much if it's taxed twice, the majority of people with 10 million dollars in a portfolio are passive investors of whatever liquid and hedgeable assets are available.

I'm not wading into that debate. I'm just concerned with accurate use of terminology, as multiple people in this discussion seem to be playing fast-and-loose with it.

Re:Americans Now Need at Least $500k a Year to Enter Top 1% by gitgudnubs on Monday October 28, 2019 @05:16PM (#21381772)
lumost: Good idea: incentivize consumption.