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Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by DuskStar on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @06:17PM (#21276582)
If you can have political discussion as long as you have the right opinions, that's not really a discussion is it? It's "affirm you agree with my political beliefs or be fired".

And a few parallels - what do you do about the person who's afraid of being shot if the government comes to take their guns (and thus is going to be uncomfortable with opinions leaning that way), or the person who's afraid of their kids being shot at school (and thus is going to be uncomfortable with opinions leaning towards fewer restrictions on guns)? You can't satisfy both of them without banning discussion, and a lot of issues are like that.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by kelnos on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @06:53PM (#21276895)
I think we're all conflating social and political opinions here. If you aren't comfortable with gay people, then that's super lame, and we're probably not going to be friends, but I wouldn't want to try to get you fired. However, if you support denying equal rights to gay people, then I don't want to be associated with you in any way.

So I don't see some things as political issues at all; they have political components, and extend into politics, but they start somewhere else: I see them as human rights issues, and issues around empathy. If you're going to deny someone their existence, and are arrogant enough to proclaim that your lived experience is the be-all, end-all of everything, and that your exclusionary way of life should be enshrined in law, then I frankly just don't think you're a good person. And that has nothing to do with politics.

(To stop the expected rejoinder: no, this isn't a way to justify things like pedophilia. Everyone should be able to live their life they way they want to, but the key component is: as long as they aren't hurting anyone else in the process. Gay rights doesn't hurt anyone else. Pedophilia does.)

Regarding guns, I've had many productive discussions with people who own guns and staunchly support the 2nd Amendment. (My personal view is that 2A should be repealed, and we should have strict licensing and training requirements around gun ownership.) I don't know that I've changed anyone's mind, but I do feel like I understand some people better, and vice versa. With a few people I just hit an impasse; then I agree to disagree, and get on with my day.

And regardless, there's plenty of room for common ground there, too. Most of the gun owners I know think it's ridiculous how easy it is to get hold of a gun, and support more restrictions and requirements. Some even agree with me that "assault style" weapons should be restricted to gun ranges (or banned entirely) and not sold to the general public. And I've fired guns at ranges before and totally get how fun it can be. I'm generally skeptical of self-defense arguments, and think defense-from-government-tyranny arguments are laughable, but there's still plenty of common ground and productive discussion to be had.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by manigandham on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @07:07PM (#21277037)
"deny someone their existence"

This is one of the most overused, vague and inaccurate arguments. Nobody is denied from existing. These kind of extreme claims cause more friction than any actual discussion of the issue at hand.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by kelnos on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @07:59PM (#21277492)
I don't think it's that extreme. There are quite a few people who deny that being gay is real, and is just a mental illness that can be fixed. I would say that sexual orientation is a big part of a person's identity. It might not be "existence" in the strictest sense of the word, but it's certainly not hyperbole either.

Regardless, if you don't like it, remove that phrase from your reading; my point still stands without it.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by manigandham on Thursday October 17, 2019 @03:22AM (#21279688)
Ok, I doubt there's really any significant number of people who care to deny these things but I'll rephrase:

If your identity requires acceptance by others for you to consider yourself valid then it's not really your identity at all. If that sounds strange then replace gender identity and sex orientation with religion. Nobody needs to accept your faith for you to have one. You remain fully independent and capable of having whatever identity you want.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by LordHumungous on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @10:11PM (#21278324)
> if you support denying equal rights to gay people, then I don't want to be associated with you in any way.

Does that include Muslims and Catholics who oppose gay marriage?

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by DuskStar on Thursday October 17, 2019 @01:43PM (#21284495)
> Regarding guns, I've had many productive discussions with people who own guns and staunchly support the 2nd Amendment. (My personal view is that 2A should be repealed, and we should have strict licensing and training requirements around gun ownership.) I don't know that I've changed anyone's mind, but I do feel like I understand some people better, and vice versa. With a few people I just hit an impasse; then I agree to disagree, and get on with my day.

> And regardless, there's plenty of room for common ground there, too. Most of the gun owners I know think it's ridiculous how easy it is to get hold of a gun, and support more restrictions and requirements. Some even agree with me that "assault style" weapons should be restricted to gun ranges (or banned entirely) and not sold to the general public. And I've fired guns at ranges before and totally get how fun it can be. I'm generally skeptical of self-defense arguments, and think defense-from-government-tyranny arguments are laughable, but there's still plenty of common ground and productive discussion to be had.

To me, this looks like you're so far to the gun control side of things that you're having conversations with milder gun control advocates and then thinking they're second amendment supporters. Have you ever had such a conversation with a true, "machine guns and artillery should be unregulated"-tier 2nd Amendment advocate? Or any 2nd Amendment advocate that doesn't support increasing gun control?

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by pjc50 on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @06:40PM (#21276782)
Gun ownership is not a "protected characteristic", because it's not something intrinsic to the person.

Your example discusses risks and statements about the future, but not questions of identity and personhood.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by ThrowawayR2 on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @10:22PM (#21278367)
> "Gun ownership is not a "protected characteristic", because it's not something intrinsic to the person. Your example discusses risks and statements about the future, but not questions of identity and personhood."

Identity is whatever a person decides it is, according to progressive doctrine, therefore it's not intrinsic to the person either. There's no objective identity-o-meter.

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by tomp on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @07:33PM (#21277259)
Religion isn't intrinsic to the person but is a protected characteristic so in reality the line isn't where you claim it is.
Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by DoofusOfDeath on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @10:22PM (#21278366)
> Religion isn't intrinsic to the person ...

Interestingly, even that statement takes a particular religious stance.

Some branches of Christianity hold that a person does not choose to be Christian, but rather is chosen by God to be a Christian [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irresistible_grace

Re:Gitlab: don't discuss politics at work by TeMPOraL on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @08:13PM (#21277617)
Also, while characteristics defined by biology or history are not choices, identity to a large extent is.