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Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by kristofferR on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:14PM (#21253444)
I feel like this article somewhat undersells brødskriver. They can be delicious.

Most important is good bread, which is super common here, despite it being totally unavailable in most other countries. All ordinary grocery stores get freshly baked bread every day, whole in paper bags of course.

For example - with a thick slice of butter, then some oven-baked liver paste and two slices of gherkin on top and boom - you have something delicious in a single minute.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by davidweir on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:15AM (#21255514)
> Most important is good bread

Having lived in Norway for two years, and resorted to deep frozen baguettes from Meny (an upscale supermarket chain) because the fresh bread was so bad, I'm... not sure about this.

Glad to be back in Finland where the bread is good (seriously!) and the lunches are substantial, healthy, warm and filling.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by l0b0 on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:47AM (#21255646)
IMO you can't get good bread in grocery stores in any Western country, Norway included. Good bread has about 2-3 times the density of store bread, for one thing, which would make it 2-3 times more expensive to make (2-3 times more raw ingredients + more time & energy in the oven). That takes the price into ridiculous territory, so it's just not reasonable for supermarkets to stock them.

My recommendation: get a decent bread baking machine. What's decent? One where the bread, container and rotor all come out of the machine after baking, so they can be easily washed. It takes about 2 minutes to mix in everything, and the quality is honestly pretty indistinguishable from hand made (as long as I remember to put the rotor back in after cleaning it :).

Dwarf bread refined over decades: 400g wheat flour (coarse if you can get a hold of it), 300ml water, 1ts salt, 50ml olive oil and ½ts dry yeast, which goes in a separate compartment in the machine to be dropped in when ready. To this you can add up to 200g or so of goodies - pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, walnuts or grated carrot.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by jotm on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @06:44AM (#21257216)
The built in bakeries in Lidl and other stores have great bread imo.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by wincy on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:11PM (#21254638)
You can get good bread in the USA, it’s just that it’s $6 a loaf instead of the $0.87 bread loaf of white bread from Aldi or Walmart. Most people just don’t see the point in spending more money on food than is absolutely necessary (likely to our detriment).

My mother-in-law criticized me and my wife for buying fresh salmon as being “too expensive” despite her being a millionaire, and it being quite affordable for us. She thinks tuna in a can is “good enough”.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by Symbiote on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:44PM (#21253658)
> Most important is good bread, which is super common here, despite it being totally unavailable in most other countries.

I think the rest of Europe will argue with this.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by chipotle_coyote on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:59PM (#21253766)
I think a lot of America will argue with this.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by atombender on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:29PM (#21255064)
Norwegian living the U.S. here. It's pretty different when you consider the average supermarket.

The breads you get in your average American supermarket (Giant, Safeway, Shoprite and so on) are either the pre-sliced, packaged kind, which are largely flavourless and full of preservatives and sugar, or the stuff in the bakery section, which tend to be Italian-style white bread rolls, bagels and so on. You can find better bread — and sometimes very, very good bread — in many bakeries, or in high-end grocery stores like Whole Food, at farmer's markets, and so on. But it's not the norm.

Scandinavian supermarkets generally don't have separate bread and bakery sections. There's just a bread section [1], where you'll find all freshly made bread. The whole grain content is very high, and the breads feel rustic and wholesome overall. You'll be able to find plain wheat bread and French baguettes, but these are the exception. You'll also find some pre-packaged breads, but they are typically sold specifically for their longevity.

While I can get great bread in the U.S. if I seek it out, I still miss the easy availability of good bread, and I feel bad for all those who think that pre-sliced package bread is all there is.

[1] https://bdn-norge.no/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/grovhet.png

[2] https://www.polarbrod.se/no/vare-brod/havre/

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by tallanvor on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @03:26AM (#21256286)
I just want to point out that you can get very horrible bread in Norway as well. In the image you link to, you have Loff at the bottom left of the screen. That stuff is even more tasteless than the average American bread. It also gets more prominent placement, at least from what I've seen in Oslo grocery stores.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by atombender on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @03:25PM (#21262613)
"Loff" is terrible! I didn't even like it as a kid. To be sure, not all Norwegian bread is great, I was really speaking about the general difference in the availability of good bread.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by kristofferR on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:31AM (#21257427)
To be fair, the point of loaf is exactly that, to be unhealthy, white and tasteless. It's great for pan-fried toast with cheese and kids who only want to taste the jam.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by thawaway1837 on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:01PM (#21253783)
The majority of Americans get their bread from the grocery store, and by the time they eat it it’s probably several days if not weeks old.

It is true that you can get extremely high quality fresh bread from a bakery (or even bakeries inside grocery stores) but that isn’t really part of the culture and good quality bread is usually considered an occasional treat.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by lazyasciiart on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:09PM (#21253853)
“People don’t usually buy it” is a different claim to “it is totally unavailable”.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by shantly on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:52PM (#21255168)
A baguette in my Midwestern city close to as good as a standard Parisian corner store baguette is like $6. You can get some that are "good" but in fact way worse than the real deal for $4-5. Approach the 2 Euro baguette in price and we're talking something that's so much worse it's unrecognizable. Pastries have a similar ~2x markup and are still usually not quite as good as the norm there even at the high end of the price range. IDK what it is that makes decent baked goods so expensive here. We grow all the wheat, FFS. Apparently kinda halfway knowing how to produce a plain-ass croissant that is somewhat reminiscent of an actual croissant is rare and expensive knowledge around here. We flat-out cannot produce affordable baked goods & bread that aren't fairly bad, it seems—simply not-bad is luxury priced here, and you may have to drive a ways to get it.

[EDIT] and this bleeds over into anything requiring bread, like a sandwich. If you buy one out and it's not quite expensive, it will for sure be using pretty bad bread and there'll be a fairly low cap on how good it might be.

[EDIT EDIT] toss in the fact that decent or better cheese is more expensive here, and the sandwich situation is downright dire.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by com2kid on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:13PM (#21254288)
> The majority of Americans get their bread from the grocery store, and by the time they eat it it’s probably several days if not weeks old.

Every grocery store near me has giant signs advertising fresh baked bread. Buying bread in plastic bags isn't necessary.

Heck when I was a poor college student I'd buy fresh baked 6 inch sandwich rolls, IIRC they were 6 for $2 or $3.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by Moru on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:35PM (#21254409)
Is it bake-off or real bread baked at the store?
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by chipotle_coyote on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:15PM (#21254667)
While I'm sure that depends on the store, many supermarkets I'm aware of -- including Safeway out here in Silicon Valley and Publix in Florida, where I grew up -- have in-store bakeries.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by whymauri on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:23PM (#21255039)
Publix is a god send. Some of their bread actually rivals non-American bread.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by reaperducer on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:45PM (#21254832)
One of the chain supermarkets I go to has a big sign announcing the time the next batch of fresh bread will come out of the oven.

So, yes, in spite of the typical HN US-bashing, fresh bread is available in America.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by com2kid on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:33PM (#21255334)
This isn't even mentioning:

1. The chain of Brazilian bakeries around me

2. The fresh bread loaves baked at multiple larger Asian grocery stores.

3. The awesome Vietnamese bakery that sends out fresh baguettes daily.

4. The multiple dedicated Japanese bakeries making fresh bread.

5. The multiple dedicated Chinese bakeries making fresh loaves of bread.

6. The multiple local American bakeries that deliver fresh bread to area grocery stores every day.

Actually, after making that list, I am kind of shocked at how large the market is for fresh baked bread...

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by kristofferR on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:50AM (#21255862)
I should have been clearer, with "good bread" I meant dark whole-grained bread, not white stuff like loaf and baguettes. Sorry, just my Norwegian bubble I guess.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by com2kid on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @12:56PM (#21260693)
> I should have been clearer, with "good bread" I meant dark whole-grained bread, not white stuff like loaf and baguettes. Sorry, just my Norwegian bubble I guess.

Then I'll walk to the Eastern European deli a couple blocks from my house! Though only a small selection of their bread is freshly delivered, the better Eastern European deli near me closed quite a few years ago, they baked stuff on site.

I can get plenty of darker whole grain breads from some of the above sources I listed as well.

Though saying that French styles breads aren't good may get you in trouble with a huge swath of the world! There isn't a "quality" difference between fresh made baguettes and any other styles of bread, at that point it is down to preferences. I wouldn't call anything fresh made at a local bakery "not good bread." I may not prefer it, but that doesn't make it low quality.

Nutrition, of course, is separate discussion!

Now if you want something legit to complain about in America, talk about deli meats. Boar's Head has an almost complete monopoly over deli meats, especially on the west coast. I have to travel to, at minimum, Chicago, before the corned beef starts getting good.

Likewise with cheeses. Each major area of the country likely has a local dairy making cheese, and I used to think those cheeses were a-ok, after all, local dairy and all that. Travelling a bit made me realize how not-so-good most cheeses, outside of the artisanal ones, sold in America are.

On the flip side, ok-quality cheese also trends in price towards being dirt cheap, and "not-so-ok" quality cheese is dirt cheap.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by Vrondi on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @03:19PM (#21262539)
Ah, total cultural translation fail. To me anything very "dark" is bad bread. I really enjoy the sort of "medium light in color multigrain" my local bakery makes, which includes whole grains like millet and flax, with a slightly chewy texture. Here are "good" breads from my local bakery in small town USA: clockwise from top left, semolina sunflower, multigrain, country white, and cranberry walnut. Scones, muffin, and cookie are bonus. https://photos.app.goo.gl/Prcba1K99yioxNVU9
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by reaperducer on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @11:16AM (#21259329)
Pumpernickel, and three types of rye are available daily. Plus random oaty things.

Remember that a huge part of the United States was settled by Germans.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by lotsofpulp on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:41PM (#21254081)
The bread in America is garbage compared to Europe.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by shawnlower2 on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:05PM (#21254237)
Best not to conflate all bread in America with Wonder Bread. We have bakeries that actually choose to make a quality product, and it's available in (edit: grocery stores in) most cities. Many Americans simply choose to optimize for cost.

The bread in Copenhagen was fantastic, though.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by j7ake on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:08AM (#21255717)
Maybe a more precise statement is the distribution of quality of bread in USA versus countries like France is skewed towards France.

Yes USA can have bread just as good as in France but it's considered in the tails of the distribution while in France it's considered near the mode.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by naravara on Monday October 14, 2019 @08:56PM (#21254541)
Having to go to speciality bakeries to get good bread is a different thing than just having it available in every corner market and whatever the bodega equivalent is.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by chipotle_coyote on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:14PM (#21254659)
But you don't have to go to a specialty bakery to get good fresh bread. I can get Acme Bread at nearly any grocery store in the San Francisco Bay Area -- and lest someone (fairly) say, "Yes, but that's the Bay Area," anyone who grew up in the southern US probably knows Publix, the biggest grocery store in that region, is justifiably famous for their in-store baked breads.

I think there's sometimes a tendency among Europeans in particular to write off all American food as being essentially the same as the most iconically awful brands we have over here: Wonder bread, Velveeta cheese, Hershey's milk chocolate, Bud Light beer. And that's just not true.

I'm sort of inspired by Vox's article on the "boring lunch" here to start packing simple sandwiches again, which I haven't done in years. If I do, I'm probably going to be able to get pretty good bread, butter, cheese, and meats -- they're just not that hard to get here.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by naravara on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:35PM (#21254781)
The difference is that when I lived in Florida I was going grocery shopping at Publix once a week or so. I tended to buy in bulk and prioritized shelf life. I now live in the downtown part of a walkable city and I tend to buy staples every other day or every 3 days because I can just drop in on my way home from work.

Having the good stuff suffusing your daily life rather than being a specific thing you need to go get makes a difference in your relationship to the food. It’s just easier. It’s not a decision you make, it becomes a default thing you get.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by jandrewrogers on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:54PM (#21254875)
You don't need to go to a specialty bakery to get good fresh bread in most of the US. It is ubiquitous in most cities, and many stores that sell it will start to run out later in the day. It is either made or delivered daily. Several small shops within 1-2 blocks of where I live all sell fresh bread.

The old school sliced white loaf in a bag that was very popular in the 1960s has been in decline for at least a few decades. I rarely see it anymore.

Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by collyw on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @04:20AM (#21256521)
In my experience most of the food is. American seem to go for quantity over quality. I am sure there are exceptions (they do good hamburgers) but most of the stuff i got served seemed overly processed.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by rdtsc on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @03:05AM (#21256179)
Been living here for 20 some years never had problems finding good bread.
Re:How to pack a Norwegian sandwich, the world’s most boring... by dagw on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @04:42AM (#21256635)
Most important is good bread, which is super common here

That must be a new development. I lived in Norway until 2002 and have eaten my fair share of matpacker and the bread with definitely very mediocre unless you where willing to pay ~$10 at a decent bakery. Otherwise it was Kneip, Loff or frozen baguettes , neither which can really be called "good".

But in general I agree with you. Good bread with lots of butter is amazing.