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Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by refurb on Monday October 14, 2019 @04:16PM (#21252374)
That’s a great example of how stupid insurers are. That drug have had zero sales, but they sneaked in the back when no one was looking.
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by coryrc on Monday October 14, 2019 @04:24PM (#21252463)
Wrong; insurers' profit is limited to a percentage of expenditure in the ACA. Increasing expenditure is the only way to increase profit.
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by bduerst on Monday October 14, 2019 @05:18PM (#21253014)
Which is why ACA also instituted marketplaces and insurance standards, so that competition across substitute services keeps premiums competitive.

E.g. Anthem is more than free to double the premium on their bronze plan to increase net profits, but then customers are free to swap in bronze plans from Cigna, Kaiser, or any number of competitors that didn't.

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by ddingus on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:15PM (#21253456)
Not really. Networks complicate all of that severely.

This massive price escalation was called out as a definite outcome by progressives seeking a public option at the time.

The percent cap was touted as the fix.

Insurers bought facilities and raising dollar amounts kept revenue near expectations.

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by bduerst on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:07PM (#21253834)
How exactly does networks complicate that?

Insurers had to scale (i.e. increase costs) after ACA was implemented because number of uninsured Americans went from 18 to 11%.

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by hakfoo on Monday October 14, 2019 @10:30PM (#21255070)
Networks complicate things by reducing demand elasticity.

For example, look at Maricopa County, Arizona. It's like 100km across and includes both a major capital city (Phoenix) and several suburbs with 6-figure populations (Mesa, Chandler, Glendale).

Many of the marketplace health plans* would have networks which focused around central Phoenix. If you wanted to see an in-network doctor or urgent care and lived at the fringes of the county, it was a 30-minute drive or more.

This meant people in the fringes had to pick the few plans that covered nearby facilities, even if there was a significant price difference.

* This was during the first few years of the marketplace. By 2017 or so they were basically down to a single insurer, so even that degree of consumer leverage was gone.

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by ddingus on Monday October 14, 2019 @11:20PM (#21255280)
Have you ever tried a policy change?
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by bduerst on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @03:07PM (#21262411)
Yes. I have actually bought my own insurance through one of the state-run exchanges in the past.
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by ddingus on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @03:18PM (#21262530)
For anyone with complications, medical history that is non trivial, networks become very important, and do costs.

Networks take people in and out of the chain of care providers, and costs swing dramatically.

The whole affair adds zero value when compared to simpler Medicare For All type plans.

People in my life got sick, and the financial carnage has gone on for decades.

This pretty much rules out any favorable view on markets and private insurers I may have. And I am by no means a unique, or even uncommon case.

If it were not for family, I would have picked up and left this cruel system a decade ago.

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by tptacek on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @03:46PM (#21262853)
Networks are very important with all kinds of insurance. The thing you notice when you switch from employer-covered insurance to ACA market insurance is all the fiddly choices your employer was making for you. You can say that having to make these choices is a process failure of the ACA, or you can say that having the freedom to make those choices yourself is a benefit of the ACA.

I'm not sure what M4A has to do with this, and, in particular, to relate this story back to the thread, you should be aware that Medicare drug benefit administration is also privatized, and that somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 of Medicare recipients also get Medicare Advantage, a private insurance rider to Medicare that is largely defined by network restrictions.

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by ddingus on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @10:28PM (#21266473)
M4A has everything to do with this.

Millions of Americans have and are being harmed financially and or physically by this patchwork mess.

The other thing you notice is insurers treat people who they know will cost them much differently.

M4A will centralize most of this and will distribute cost and risk as widely as possible

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by tptacek on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @10:36PM (#21266516)
Could you formulate a response like this that addresses the point I just made, which is that Medicare also includes, for a huge chunk of its recipients, network restrictions, and for all its prescription drug recipients private insurance?
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by ddingus on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @09:31PM (#21278129)
For now it does. That will not always be the case, or should it be, the regulatory picture will appear very different than it does today.

Those things simply do not add value. They do help to make more money.

When health care is about making money, it is not about making people healthy. And it is not about cost either.

Very large numbers of Americans are both impacted in a negative way, and long past the idea of private insurers being good primary care vehicles. They aren't.

Private insurers should be forced out of primary care. If I had my way, doing that would be illegal.

There is a basic conflict of interest between an insurer making money and what is best for sick people.

I will tell you personally, the hell I have gone through, family members dead, others living with pain, financial damage, homes lost, I am very highly motivated to do all I can to see an end to our current, increasingly cruel and ineffective system. Talk about death panels. Yeah, happened to us. Unnecessary that it did too.

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by tptacek on Wednesday October 16, 2019 @11:53PM (#21278780)
So really your argument has nothing to do with Medicare? You're just using the term "Medicare" as a placeholder for whatever health policy you come up with? I'm not trying to be snarky: this is also what several of the Democratic frontrunners are doing.
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by ddingus on Thursday October 17, 2019 @12:00PM (#21283414)
Your words not mine.

The original intent of Medicare is intact in the proposals a growing number of people are moving to actualize.

I am not coming up with "any policy"

I am contributing to the Medicare For All effort.

Does that clear things up?

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by ddingus on Thursday October 17, 2019 @03:20PM (#21285467)
BTW: Totally get it. No worries.

I just reread this, and the TL;DR:

For very large numbers of people, the current arrangement simply isn't acceptable. The pain level on that has reached a point where those people are now motivated politically.

Medicare For All is an expansion of Medicare, and an augmentation.

Technically, part of what you said is right: Medicare is being used to reference policy modeled on, but does expand considerably on that which we know as Medicare today.

That's being done because people largely understand and like the part of Medicare being expanded on, and that's the part sans private insurers and the usual mechanics associated with all that.

The Dem front runners are looking to garner those health care votes. They aren't wrong to be doing that as for increasing fractions of those votes, a solid proposal that eliminates the harm potential present in our current system is a litmus test.

Cheers!

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by refurb on Monday October 14, 2019 @04:32PM (#21252549)
It’s not that simple.

Insurers compete on the employer market for premiums. If you keep jacking up your premiums, you may find an employer dumps you.

And the pool of money is finite. Getting a better deal on a drug means you have more money to spend on other care that might get you more members.

That said, I agree the 80/20 ACA law is a stupid way to try and control costs.

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by PopeDotNinja on Monday October 14, 2019 @04:20PM (#21252415)
Insurers just pass the costs through to consumers. Health insurance premiums have been going up a stupid amount, too.
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by bduerst on Monday October 14, 2019 @05:17PM (#21253001)
Which is why legislation like the affordable care act that limits premiums helps keep stupid behavior from insurance companies in check.
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by PopeDotNinja on Monday October 14, 2019 @05:28PM (#21253090)
Regarding the ACA, as I understand it, there's the 80/20 rule that states insurers must spend 80% of what they make from premiums on providing & improving healthcare. [1]

The problem with that is there's no cap on what premiums should be. So if you charge 10K in premiums, and keep 2K, there's nothing in the ACA that is preventing you from raising your rates to 15K to keep 3K.

Please correct me if I misunderstand how this works.

[1] https://www.healthcare.gov/health-care-law-protections/rate-...

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by bduerst on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:56PM (#21253748)
Except that the ACA also instututes marketplaces and enforces insurance standards, so that consumers can shop and switch between substitute services if one insurer tries to hike premiums.
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by tracker1 on Monday October 14, 2019 @09:31PM (#21254754)
Except they're ALL hiking premiums... What it comes down to is adding fiduciary responsibility to act on behalf of their clients' interest in negotiating rates, which they don't do and stopped doing.
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by toast0 on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @01:59AM (#21255891)
Where I am, the 2019 marketplace has two providers, but one of them has a very limited network, so I can't do anything in network without driving at least 30 minutes. So, that's really just one provider and I get to pick which metal I like. What I really wanted to know, but couldn't tell is if I hit the out of pocket max, is there any difference in what's covered by plan.

It may be a better marketplace than before, but it's still a pretty shitty marketplace.

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by bduerst on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @07:18PM (#21265135)
Rural US, right? Keep in mind that the providers in your area are also in areas where they compete with others on premium price. Just because you anecdotally don't see it doesn't mean the competition isn't happening.
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by toast0 on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @08:07PM (#21265549)
Semi-rural, west puget sound, lots of Seattle commuters.
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by PopeDotNinja on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @02:17AM (#21255965)
A few months ago, when I looked at buying private health insurance via the exchange in California, I had never heard of any of the insurance companies & none of them would let me see my own doctor. I was not impressed.
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by dragonwriter on Tuesday October 15, 2019 @02:47AM (#21256110)
> A few months ago, when I looked at buying private health insurance via the exchange in California, I had never heard of any of the insurance companies

Blue Shield of CA has plans available in the full region for each of CA’s 19 pricing regions, and is the third largest insurer in the state.

Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by ddingus on Monday October 14, 2019 @06:16PM (#21253468)
Exactly right. And if you happen to have some preexisting condition, and who doesn't, individual policy prices are insane.
Re:Pharma companies continue to raise drug prices at rates w... by zaroth on Monday October 14, 2019 @07:48PM (#21254120)
Actually the insurers wisened up and largely stopped approving claims for this one.