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Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by giancarlostoro on Saturday October 12, 2019 @11:41AM (#21233976)
> We admittedly got swept up in a false romance with Apple. Over the past few years, Apple routinely invited us to demo our products at their headquarters, and offered to help us out with whatever business and engineering challenges we faced. They also ordered thousands of dollars’ worth of our hardware, and we naively thought it was because they were interested in our product. It turns out that they were… just not in the way we were thinking.

Holy crap they got (HBO) Silicon Valley "Brain Raped."[0] What sickens me is that Apple wouldnt just outright buy them out instead. If you are designing something like this... Make sure you patent as much as possible. That would of guaranteed a buyout. Course not sure how patentable that idea would of been by now if they had other competitors.

[0]: https://youtube.com/watch?v=JlwwVuSUUfc

Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by wincent on Saturday October 12, 2019 @01:31PM (#21234758)
Maybe this is a case where the old adage applies: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by a byzantine organizational structure in which the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing".

While its certainly plausible that Apple engaged in some kind of two-faced corporate espionage here, another plausible explanation is that Apple is an enormous company, and the part of it that was working on Sidecar had little or no connection at all with the part that was talking to Astropad.

Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by pavlov on Saturday October 12, 2019 @02:10PM (#21235024)
Yes, this seems likely. If Apple is anything like most tech companies, the people who interact with third parties like Astropad would be in a division called something like Partnerships, at a far remove from the core macOS product decision-making.
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by mattnewton on Saturday October 12, 2019 @01:35PM (#21234790)
I think this is very likely- when I was there ~3 years ago, my org was pretty silo’d and it seemed like this was common for most teams, by design.
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by babuskov on Saturday October 12, 2019 @02:53PM (#21235345)
> left hand doesn't know what the right is doing

It probably isn't even that. The "Left hand" could be engineers who are only thinking about technical and product design aspects and really want the thing to go off and succeed. And then, just when it's about to happen, a legal team does the final check and someone higher in the hierarchy has to approve it and they say "wait, can we just build this in house much cheaper". The Right Hand just learned what the Left Hand was up to, and decided that it isn't perfectly in company's interest, so they adjust it a bit.

Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by catalogia on Saturday October 12, 2019 @04:53PM (#21236171)
> "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by a byzantine organizational structure in which the left hand doesn't know what the right is doing"

Is there utility in such a distinction?

Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by rictic on Saturday October 12, 2019 @06:46PM (#21236895)
Improved ability to understand the present and predict the future?

e.g. if malice, then sharing ideas is more dangerous; if byzantine organization dynamics, then it's less dangerous.

Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by catalogia on Saturday October 12, 2019 @07:23PM (#21237050)
The effect is the same. If you assume malice, the actions you end up predicting are identical to the actions you predict if you assume byzantine organization. They are functionally equivalent. The distinction is hardly even a distinction at all, since byzantine organizations are often malicious. Even if no particular individual in the organization has malicious intent, the actions of the organization as a whole may be malicious.
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by rictic on Sunday October 13, 2019 @03:13PM (#21242256)
It would be very surprising indeed if they were truly indistinguishable.
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by effingwewt on Saturday October 12, 2019 @08:43PM (#21237422)
More and more I hear this applied to companies acting irresponsibly. How about 'effing's law' where companies are exempt from that adage. Public companies act in the interest of profit. Full stop.
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by tpmx on Saturday October 12, 2019 @11:50AM (#21234060)
Again, I hate to defend such a fxxedxp company as Apple, but...

Unless they divulged some really clever low-latency video compression optimizations during these meetings (I bet making the mouse cursor move with low latency was the #1 priority - everything else is boring plumbing)... I'm filing this under the "CEO's slightly dramatically exaggerated regrets", maybe for the benefits of his investors.

Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by spyder on Saturday October 12, 2019 @02:35PM (#21235208)
Just watching their promo video about the Astropad Studio on their website, what I see is the latency for drawing is annoyingly bad (and they show it exactly when they're talking about "lightning fast speed" :O )

https://vimeo.com/198755916

But part of the problem is probably the drawing software too, because even native drawing has different latency between drawing apps:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNbvYaO0ZZ0

It's not an easy problem because even 1 ms latency is noticeable in drawing as Microsoft research showed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOvQCPLkPt4

Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by cma on Saturday October 12, 2019 @05:57PM (#21236658)
Apple OS updates broke low latency even on things that only send the mouse, like Synergy (power saving causes latency when idle and wakes up for responsiveness only on hardware input, or something like that). My guess is sidecar uses OS level stuff to get around some of those limitations, which may have affected astropad too?
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by giancarlostoro on Saturday October 12, 2019 @12:25PM (#21234312)
Exaggerated how? Not sure how the investors benefit. I am going to assume good intent from the author to just reflect on things. Hes not focused on his other projects. But he does have the right to link to them since they are relevant.
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by tpmx on Saturday October 12, 2019 @12:28PM (#21234331)
That would be irresponsible speculation on my part, so no thanks.
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by giancarlostoro on Saturday October 12, 2019 @12:30PM (#21234350)
Again how do investors benefit? There is usually motive behind ill intent, I am not seeing it. I have had moments similar but not quite as impacting as an entire OS adopting my ideas and I reflect from time to time on those moments. I have nothing to gain from sharing them though nor will anybody near me.
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by coredog64 on Saturday October 12, 2019 @01:09PM (#21234599)
English can be an awful language sometimes. I take that “for the benefit” to mean “The real audience is AstroPad investors”, not that AstroPad investors somehow came out better on the deal.
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by tpmx on Saturday October 12, 2019 @01:10PM (#21234613)
Thank you for helping clarifying this thing, coredog64! (You're indeed correct.) I'll try to express myself more clearly going forward.
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by giancarlostoro on Saturday October 12, 2019 @01:37PM (#21234798)
Ah I understand now, that I can't argue against. Companies make such public statements all the time so it's not surprising if that's the case. This also gives future investors insights into the company they are considering investing in and how they operate.
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by cookiecaper on Monday October 14, 2019 @05:22AM (#21246394)
It's unfortunately very common for people to believe that they'll get bought out based solely on the ingenuity of their product.

The business reality is that almost any software can be easily replicated by BigTechCo for a max of a couple million dollars, far less than any founder is hoping to get acquired for.

In an acquisition, buyers are not buying the software despite whatever PR-friendly face gets put on it. They're buying something they can't just easily generate by locking a few of their already-employed engineers in a closet, which means either a) intellectual property via patents; or b) an audience/userbase that the acquiring company can't already easily access.

No entrepreneur should go into it without internalizing and understanding that. Code is cheap. If you want to be acquired, you have to bring something to the table.

(also note: for Google and Apple, "a lot of mobile users" isn't really part of that equation)

Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by rolltiide on Saturday October 12, 2019 @01:25PM (#21234713)
Feature masquerading as a company
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by egypturnash on Saturday October 12, 2019 @12:21PM (#21234280)
IIRC this company was started by a couple of ex-Apple engineers who had been trying unsuccessfully to get this sort of thing built into iOS for a while.
Re:What to Do When You Get Sherlocked by Apple by kalleboo on Saturday October 12, 2019 @12:44PM (#21234461)
I think that was Duet Display