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Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by netsharc on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:18PM (#21204643)
Great Streisand moves by China though, previously gamers or basketball fans might not really care about what's happening in Hong Kong/China in general, but within 2 days they (China) have raised awareness of what a shitty overlord they are.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by BrandonMarc on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:20PM (#21204671)
Ditto South Park. By telling people they cannot watch South Park, they have guaranteed everyone will want to watch that episode.

That's the lesson Dolores Umbridge inadvertently taught us in Harry Potter # 5.

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by winslow on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:58PM (#21205147)
Yup we watched the episode last night. I hadn't watched South Park since college. It was a great episode.

It's free to watch here: https://southpark.cc.com/full-episodes/s23e02-band-in-china

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by pdpi on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:11PM (#21205291)
I feel like an idiot. It only just occurred to me that the episode's name is "ban(ne)d in China".
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by DataGata on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:20PM (#21206200)
I honestly thought the entire Metal Band B-Plot was just to get that pun into the name.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by Reedx on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:06PM (#21205250)
South Park Studios and Comedy Central are having a great week.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't one of the biggest episodes in South Park history. And certainly the most viewed episode in China, haha.

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by strombofulous on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:47PM (#21205780)
Why do you believe people in China are watching this? Does south park usually have a lot of chinese viewers?
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by dirtyid on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:00PM (#21205955)
South Park was HUGE in China in 2000s, counterfeit plushies and merchandise everywhere.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by celticmusic on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:28PM (#21204767)
There was recently a brouhaha over a cosplayer being accused of blackface for cosplaying a league of legends character named Pyke.

This cosplayer was a finalist and the competition in question removed her over it.

When I first encountered it this morning my thought was that she ultimately wins because she's getting exposure that she never would have gotten before, and most people aren't ridiculous.

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by esrauch on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:49PM (#21205025)
That... doesn't really seem the same.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by kaybe on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:14PM (#21206140)
So what would be the PC way to cosplay a specific dark-skinned character when you are really light-skinned?
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by citizenkeen on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:32PM (#21207700)
Black people seem to be able to dress up as white characters without using white face just fine.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by apacheCamel on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:36PM (#21206407)
Be a light-skinned Pyke. The costume IMO is the most important part. If you have the look, you don't need to put on black-face to have a killer cosplay.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by celticmusic on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @03:55PM (#21207263)
that's not Pyke.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by celticmusic on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:35PM (#21206396)
There is no PC way, that's the problem. People just need to get over themselves.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by fullshark on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:25PM (#21204730)
Streisand effect imo is overrated. We want it to be true that censorship / silencing information doesn't work but it's shown time and time again that it does work by and large and that information is silenced for the vast majority of the population.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by Dumblydorr on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:30PM (#21204794)
You're painting with a broad brush. China has a great firewall, Streisand did not. China can block its own citizens from reading about this, but Blizzard and the NBA can not. So, I'd say the Streisand effect relies on certain internet freedoms that some countries may not provide. It's not overrated here but in China it definitely is.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by 556343throwaway on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:38PM (#21206439)
China doesn’t really care what non Chinese citizens think. The government is more afraid of its own citizens starting an uprising.

The riots in Hong Kong saved the CPC. The people in Mainland China were already starting to get upset at the government because of how the trade war was affecting the economy. The implicit contract being the people won’t rebel if the economy is good.

Luckily for the CPC, the Hong Kong riots came along and now the government is able to use that as an excuse to bolster patriotism.

So naturally they need to be “tough” on the NBA, Blizzard and any other company so as to not lose the people’s support.

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by nobodyandproud on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @10:56PM (#21210397)
Time will tell whether they care or not, but I believe the CCP has moved past mere stability and support.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by bilbo0s on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:29PM (#21204779)
Well, China has done nothing here though. This is the NBA and Blizzard acting to prevent what I like to call the "Weibo Outrage Machine" from revving too high. (Not that it worked, because in the NBA's case, the machine was red lining. In Blizzard's case, there was nary a peep though, so that one is a bit puzzling?) For any who were unaware, the "Weibo Outrage Machine" is pretty much exactly what it sounds like, think Reddit, HN, or Twitter. Only in Mandarin, and with consensus opinions essentially 100% opposed to consensus opinions in the West on these issues.

I'm afraid we may have entered an era where outrage machines in China effectively dictate market access. Senators, Prime Ministers, Premier's, and Presidents will be powerless to stop it. (Well, short of shutting the outrage machines down.)

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by bcrosby95 on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:46PM (#21204979)
The NBA said "the person can say what he wants on Twitter, even if we don't like it". Blizzard banned the player for a year, took his earnings from the tournament, and fired the casters that were interviewing him.

Of course there's nary a peep about Blizzard.

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by bilbo0s on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:51PM (#21205064)
However the case may be though, it's clear that the actors here are the "Weibo Outrage Machine", the NBA, and Blizzard. Which should be more concerning than Chinese government censorship. These outrage machines are are proving themselves at once more powerful than governments and less controllable.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by elliekelly on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:02PM (#21205206)
I'm not sure I'd agree with your assumption that "outrage machines" are wholly unconnected/uncontrolled by governments. We know governments have used bots on Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit to stir controversy, why would Weibo be any different?
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by bilbo0s on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:15PM (#21205339)
This is why outrage machines everywhere are supremely dangerous. I just want to throw out the possibility here that more entities than governments are using sock puppets to rev the world's outrage machines.

I'm about to do a thought experiment here. Only a thought, I'm not accusing anyone of anything. But just consider, what sort of messages would sock puppets controlled by, say, CBA teams be throwing into the Weibo Outrage Machine on the subject of the NBA? You say, "Well the NBA is likely doing the same", and I'd probably agree. Point is though that this is a new era really in public manipulation.

Think along those lines and you can kind of get an idea how these outrage machines around the world can be far more powerful tools than any government.

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by ktln2 on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:58PM (#21205134)
"consensus opinions" authorized by Chinese government - likes, "trending" and timelines are all artificially constructed to make you feel like it's the consensus of Chinese people.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by jessaustin on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:49PM (#21205030)
How does this "outrage machine" affect the actions of the Chinese government? If people get outraged enough, will they vote against the communist party?
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by motivic on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:16PM (#21205355)
I am a Chinese American but my wife is Chinese. I have a large number of Chinese friends. You may be surprised to learn that vast majority of Chinese natives are very pro-China; and while they can be critical of the Chinese government at times, they tend to be united against any actions taken by foreign entities they consider anti-China or anti-Chinese government.

Talk to a few Chinese immigrants and you will know.

The younger Chinese generation grew up in an era of Chinese economic boom and are the benefactors of the efficiency in decision making that came with a more top-down (dictatorial if you will) government. The younger generation is much more focused on economic well-being and safety over liberty or freedom.

So as long as China can maintain the economic growth it's been having the past two decades, the Chinese public will by and large support the government.

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by seemack on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:44PM (#21205742)
> The younger generation is much more focused on economic well-being and safety over liberty or freedom

This is perfectly reasonable when you consider it a personal decision. Sure, trade away some of your freedom for better economic well-being.

But how do they justify this when their personal economic well-being requires trampling the freedom of other people?

By that logic, would pro-China people would support China going to war with and taking over other countries if it brought them "economic well-being"?

(edited to make the last statement more clearly a question since it's something I'm genuinely curious about.)

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by dirtyid on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:58PM (#21205916)
>But how do they justify this when their personal economic well-being requires trampling the freedom of other people?

There are 3 great evils in China: terrorism, separatism and extremism. HK/Tibet/XinJiang/Taiwan are not economic issues but security ones. People balance prosperity for security everywhere. The west sees HK as a large pro democracy movement, the Chinese see's this as fringe separatist violence by 0.001% of the population. They see HK as Chinese alt-right getting bold undermining domestic serenity: disenfranchised, social media savvy, economically anxious youth who see their culture being displaced and their privileged being eroded by mainland immigrants. They're acting accordingly.

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by shkkmo on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:17PM (#21206167)
In what way does pretending Taiwan does not exist improve China's security?
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by dirtyid on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:30PM (#21206326)
The physical island is a huge geopolitical asset or security risk. See island chain strategy. Also look up elevation map of Taiwan + Taiwan straight. Chinese coast is very shallow and hard to hide Chinese subs, whereas east Taiwan drops straight into deep water which enables China to hide subs which is important in controlling regional waters against US Navy. Regardless, the Chinese military planning certainly doesn't pretend the land isn't there. The government (from both sides) just doesn't recognize each others sovereignty.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by ryacko on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:32PM (#21207703)
How do Taiwanese companies do business in China?

"Hello, I am the CEO of a company located in a fully autonomous province that does not pay taxes to the PRC?"

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by shkkmo on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @03:49PM (#21207193)
China does not occupy Taiwan, so those points are moot.

What security interest is served by censoring discussion of the existence of Taiwan?

This is a political issue, not a security issue.

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by dirtyid on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @04:05PM (#21207372)
It's both. Politics is a huge part, reunification is #1 CPC policy consideration since founding and her entire legitimacy rests on it. Occupation goal is by 2050. No one is censoring discussion of Taiwan? If you're talking flag emoji that's equivalent to banning confederate flag in Chinese context. People talk about Taiwan in China all the time but under context of reunification. On refusing sovereignty claims. If Taiwan was sovereign they would be free to host US bases which challenges Chinese security, particularly shipping lanes where China imports oil. China is not energy secure. Taiwan has been a Chinese "redline" for many reasons.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by shkkmo on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @05:38PM (#21208421)
> If Taiwan was sovereign they would be free to host US bases

Taiwan is clearly sovereign, anyone saying otherwise is ignoring reality or avoiding offending China.

The US had military bases in Taiwan for 20 years, the military bases were removed to assist with normalizing relations with China.

I can absolutely see why insisting that the US not place military bases on Taiwan is a security concern, but this has nothing to do with the sovereignty of Taiwan. (Similar to US concerns about Russian military installationa in Cuba which were unrelated to Cuba's sovereignty.)

The institutional double-speak around the sovereignty of Taiwan is purely political and has no impact on actual security issues.

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by yyhhsj0521 on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @05:15PM (#21208177)
I like to compare it with the Cuban Missile Crisis. Imagine having that Soviet (in this case US) power projection so close to home.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by Mystrl on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:21PM (#21206215)
> But how do they justify this when their personal economic well-being requires trampling the freedom of other people?

The same way every one in every other country on earth deals with the awful things their country does I guess. By ignoring it.

> By that logic, would pro-China people would support China going to war with and taking over other countries if it brought them "economic well-being"?

Looking at world history probably?

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by mdpopescu on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @01:31PM (#21205559)
The same thing happens with the US: despite the problems that (most of) the rest of the world has with its government, the US citizens are very much supportive of their government.

To paraphrase your last statement, as long as the US can manage to not destroy their economy completely, the US public will by and large support the government.

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by ericd on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:16PM (#21206157)
I would say that most Americans are actually very angry about the US government.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by mdpopescu on Thursday October 10, 2019 @09:51AM (#21214442)
Not in my experience.

Most Americans are angry about the president or some senator. Medicare? FBI? The US Navy / Air Force / Army? The police? Most Americans love those. (When did you last see a group of people asking for the disbanding of the FBI? Heck, for the disbanding of the IRS even.)

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by bilbo0s on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @12:59PM (#21205157)
No, because the government generally puts on a big show to satisfy the outrage machines if the machines red line on a given subject for too long. Nothing and no one is safe. The outrage machines demand blood, then just like in the US, those in power will give the outrage machines blood. They will jail, and have even been known to execute, any political or business leader if an "outrage machine" revs about the guy for too long.

In this case, the volume of messages I was reading made clear mainlander disdain for the NBA's perceived position on Hong Kong. (The great irony being that the NBA actually has no position on HK, but just like in the US, that fact does little to stop the outrage machines.) In cases like this, the government tends to sit back, do nothing, and let American entities be embarrassed.

Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by jessaustin on Friday October 11, 2019 @01:12AM (#21221715)
It doesn't seem plausible that Xi is worried about the opinions of neckbeards. It may suit his purposes to pretend that to be the case, but they certainly have enough control over the infrastructure to silence any counterproductive "outrage". As in USA, TPTB like to pretend that there are ways for the hoi polloi to determine national priorities.
Re:Fallout from Blizzard Hong Kong Incident by SolaceQuantum on Wednesday October 09, 2019 @02:28PM (#21206303)
"They will jail, and have even been known to execute, any political or business leader if an "outrage machine" revs about the guy for too long."

Wait, when did the US kill a political or business leader because of social media pressure?