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Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by mikelevins on Sunday October 06, 2019 @09:53AM (#21172008)
It's not a matter of "supposed to", but yes, that's part of the capability that is being discussed.

There seem to be a couple of different dimensions of variation in how human memory and imagination work. One is what is discussed here: the ability to "vividly" reconstruct remembered events "from a first-person perspective". Apparently, some people can do it, and others cannot. Presumably, there's a range of abilities in between.

At one end of the spectrum are people with hyperthymesia, who appear to be able to instantly reconstruct every tiny detail, including visual details from a first-person perspective, of everything they've ever experienced. At the other end are people like those discussed in this article.

Another dimension is how vividly and comprehensively people can construct, manipulate, and experience sensory models in their imaginations. Again, the spectrum seems to run from aphantasia at one end (that's the inability to construct mental imagery at all) to someone like Stephen Wiltshire, who appears to have an eidetic visual memory that enables him to draw large, detailed landscapes with roughly photographic accuracy after briefly seeing a scene a single time.

People with aphantasia generally seem to assume that when others describe mental imagery, they are being metaphorical; that they don't mean that they actually experience mental imagery in a literal sense. Contrariwise, I do actually experience mental imagery in a literal sense. In my late teens I became fascinated with a series of exercises devised by Aleister Crowley, in which you practice constructing increasingly elaborate assemblies of colorful 3D shapes moving in different ways. The goal was to see how many shapes you could manage at once and keep all of the shapes, colors, textures, and movement patterns stable for as long as possible.

I assume an aphantastic person would think Crowley was joking or bullshitting, until they learned that some people can indeed construct and manipulate detailed mental images.

Further complicating the subject, we also know from experiments in psychology of perception that the brain tends to edit memories, altering their content over time. I'd be interested to know how this tendency interacts with the variables mentioned above.

I'm somewhere in the middle on both axes discussed above. I experience memories in the first person, and I remember and dream in color. When navigating, I rely on a 3D model of where I am and where I'm going, and if asked to go somewhere I haven't been before, I want to see a map that I can use to refresh and supplement that mental model.

By contrast, my mother navigates procedurally. She wants a sequence of operations to perform: "turn right here; go a certain distance looking for such and such a building,..." and so on. I _can_ navigate that way, but I find it much more difficult and error-prone than just constructing the 3D model. From what my mother says, I'm not sure she can construct a model like that at all.

Signs of the difference show up in, for example, the kind of information each of us wants when being directed to a new place. She wants detailed step-by-step instructions; I want coordinates in space and some identifying information (like the street address) to confirm when I've arrived at the right place. She will follow directions to the letter. I'll just pick a route that points in the right direction and improvise until I'm close enough to look for the confirming data.

Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by 11thEarlOfMar on Sunday October 06, 2019 @10:00AM (#21172060)
For most of my adult life, I've felt that I have a problem with my memory. I cannot recall much of my past life. I can know things happen, and there are a few circumstances that I can recall visually. The visual recollections are retrieved as a series of photos, not like a video.

A few years ago, I discovered that I had a vitamin B12 deficiency. B12 is a contributor to memory, so I was hopeful that by clearing up the deficiency, my memory would improve. I'd have to say I don't think so, but it's a pretty subjective question. At least, I can say it was not dramatic, if improved at all.

Otherwise, I am quite introverted, on the spectrum. I focus on my thoughts much more than what is going on around me, and that strikes me as a more likely cause. The events are not imprinted because I am not paying attention.

Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by cableshaft on Sunday October 06, 2019 @10:45AM (#21172345)
I remember things similarly to you. My high school memories are mostly just a handful of images that I can recall at any given time. But I've found a few ways to jog my memory in those a bit:

* Rereading old journal entries - I didn't do a ton back then, but I did them periodically. Some things in them I'm surprised happened to me, because I didn't remember them

* Rereading old emails and chat logs and forum posts and look at old photos - I'm kind of a digital packrat, and still have a lot of that

* Meet with friends and family and reminisce - I don't do much of the reminiscing, they do, and they remind me of things I had forgotten about.

I also think part of my problem for remembering things is I don't orally tell stories about myself that often, especially repeatedly. It seems that people who do that can recall them that much more easily. Journaling and rereading the journals helps me recall stories about my life though, and tend to be the stories I do tell others when I do.

I was pretty introverted and inward thinking too, especially back then. It's possible they didn't get imprinted but I think it's also possible that memories are fleeting and can go away if you don't actively record them.

I got better for awhile about writing things down right when they happened, and the amount of detail in those journal entries are much, much, more detailed than when I try to record things even a month after the fact. Memories can slip way too easily, I think.

Speaking of which, I've gotten way behind on journaling and need to get back on that.

Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by jcims on Sunday October 06, 2019 @10:39AM (#21172298)
I'm pretty much in the same boat.

I have an experiment for you. If you listen to podcasts regularly while doing other stuff, pull one up that you've listened to in the past 3-5 days and listen to it again. When I do this, I will periodically get a stream of vivid movies of what I was doing when I listened to it the first time. I'm talking an intrusive replay of the sensory experience I was having previously.

My next step is to fire up a dash cam and listen to podcasts while I'm driving, then re-listen a few days later and record myself describing what I see as I'm listening. Then sync the two videos and see how close my description is describing what I saw the first time.

Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by gorbachev on Sunday October 06, 2019 @12:10PM (#21172871)
When I was a teenager I used to read (fictional) books while listening to music at the same time.

For years afterwards listening to the same music would make my mind imagine events in the books I was reading listening to the same music. I'm not sure exactly when it stopped happening though.

Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by krisgee on Sunday October 06, 2019 @12:35PM (#21173037)
Final Fantasy 4 and Stairway to Heaven are inextricably linked in my mind for a similar reason.
Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by o-__-o on Sunday October 06, 2019 @10:20PM (#21176774)
For me it’s Stunts and Bone Thugs n Harmony, E. 1999 Eternal. Listened to that CD on repeat building tracks on an IBM ps/2 as a kid.

Also Biggie’s Warning and anything Visual Basic 3.0. I don’t know why

Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by macintux on Sunday October 06, 2019 @12:31PM (#21173010)
There’s a song that eludes me at the moment, but it always conjures memories of my telescope as a child. I must have heard it one night as I was looking through a star chart waiting for it to get darker.
Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by meowface on Sunday October 06, 2019 @11:57AM (#21172790)
I listen to podcasts very frequently, and I just tried this. It's pretty effective for me. It also made me a little more aware of how boring and repetitive my life's been in the past few weeks... I now have some impetus to try to do more interesting things.
Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by coldtea on Sunday October 06, 2019 @11:26AM (#21172606)
>A few years ago, I discovered that I had a vitamin B12 deficiency. B12 is a contributor to memory, so I was hopeful that by clearing up the deficiency, my memory would improve. I'd have to say I don't think so, but it's a pretty subjective question. At least, I can say it was not dramatic, if improved at all.

Note that for many vitamins taking supplements doesn't cut it the same way as taking them naturally through regular old food (fruits, vegetables, legumes, meat, fish, etc).

And besides B12 deficiency there could be other aspects to memory problems, including good sleep and less stress, than might even be dominant...

Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by callesgg on Sunday October 06, 2019 @10:20AM (#21172194)
If you are not paying attention. How could you become good at it. You have to be exposed to stimuli to be able to learn from it.

While it would not go so far as say there is causality to things. I would say that your description is better more useful model.

Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by limomium on Sunday October 06, 2019 @10:24AM (#21172216)
> It's not a matter of "supposed to"

Some expressions from the top of the article: "severely deficient", "impaired", "absence of".

Sounds very much "supposed to but isn't" to me.

Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by saalweachter on Sunday October 06, 2019 @11:54AM (#21172767)
With human variation in general, and brain function in particular, it is important to keep in mind the question, "does this (significantly) (negatively) affect your quality of life?"
Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by mikelevins on Sunday October 06, 2019 @01:01PM (#21173247)
Well perhaps those people, or some of them, at least, thought it was a matter of "supposed to", but I still don't.
Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by partyboat1586 on Sunday October 06, 2019 @12:08PM (#21172852)
When I try to imagine a simple solid yellow circle fixed in place I can't. Immediately my mind transforms it into something else. It starts disintegrating into different parts, changing color, moving, the background changes color, it starts flashing, it turns into a tunnel or bends in 3D space, it turns into 10 different circles and shapes or all of the above. I suppose this shows that my mind is chaotic. I'd love to have control over the images in my mind but for me I'm just an observer with little influence. Even a solid colour is challenging but I can usually hold a faint solid colour with no shape for a few seconds.
Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by mrd999 on Sunday October 06, 2019 @07:09PM (#21175879)
When I close my eyes I just see a dull flashing pattern, similar to tv static. If I try to imagine a simple solid yellow circle.. well this is weird but I feel like my consciousness 'spreads' out as though it was an audience of ants in a stadium, and the circle floats in the center. But, I don't really 'see' it.. rather, the countless ants each knows the circle is there and they each contribute a brief chattering about what they see. So I 'know' I'm visualizing a yellow circle, and I can nimbly focus on what various parts/aspects look like.. but it's more a collective knowledge than a visual scene like my eyes present.
Re:Severely deficient autobiographical memory in healthy adu... by MagnumPIG on Sunday October 06, 2019 @02:27PM (#21173841)
> At one end of the spectrum are people with hyperthymesia, who appear to be able to instantly reconstruct every tiny detail, including visual details from a first-person perspective, of everything they've ever experienced.

Psychology student here, to my knowledge this has never been proven to exist, except maybe the procedural memory of people who journal everything. But they still wouldn't have the level of detail you're describing here. Many people who think they have this kind of memory actually do not (though they may still have a very good memory).