That’s why even executives will clean up their desks and offices, something Americans wouldn’t even know how to start.
Deming might have introduced electronics but the quality was always about the religious way they tackle their jobs.
Hello No. What you see is only what is happening in very few industries in Japan, but "excellence" does not describe Japan at large. Worker productivity is incredibly low (too many meetings with people who have nothing to do there), lack of individual leadership/initiative, and "cluelessness" is rather the norm than anything else. Just look at how badly designed are most websites, how badly designed are most products made locally (cars and a few other industries are an exception) and how they only value small increments instead of trying completely new approaches (they could never have made the iPhone despite them having all the pieces ready 10 years before).
> always
No, after WII for a long time Americans considered Japanese products as being cheap rip-offs of what they produced themselves and that only changed after 1970s.
> excellence
How about their excellence at using English, by the way? Their attention to detail when it comes to using other languages? I hope you realize how wrong it is to make blanket statements.
In a macabre twist, the perfectionism is still alive in the work of doing nothing, such as in the way people make meticulously outlined Powerpoints for inconsequential meetings.
> How about their excellence at using English, by the way?
English is probably not considered Japanese, so it doesn't matter too much in the ethos of Japanese perfectionism. Still, non-native speakers in Japan are reluctant from using English as it makes they can not speak perfectly.
I'm sorry if I sound too sarcastic for HN commenting standards.
Everything is a tea-ceremony, like watching paint dry.
Take Iaido, where they spend a lifetime visualizing the perfect cut; and compare it to western fencing.
Tongue in cheek, there's a certain beauty and peacefulness to it as well.
I agree with this. Mainly because of the belief that 'working hard' is working long hours. Lack of initiative is because being innovative and coming up with something new is considered as not having faith in what you already have and seen as betrayal or being disloyal to your cause.
But, it is certainly true that most people will satisfy their job requirements with utmost possible excellence and perfection. Not because they have to but because they want to. I still remember walking into a conbini (a term for convenience stores like 7-11) and buying two onigiris for me and my girlfriend, who was at the time browsing the store and not with me at the cashier. When she and I were exiting the store together, the cashier who saw us leaving came running towards us and handed a paper napkin. She thought I was alone and put only one paper napkin in the bag but noticing it's two of us now she had to give us another. I'd never expect see this level of observation and dedication to one's job in the US. This was just one instance, but I have several such anecdotes from my time spent in Japan.
> How about their excellence at using English, by the way? Their attention to detail when it comes to using other languages? I hope you realize how wrong it is to make blanket statements.
This is just anglo-centic racism and nothing else. Language is not a part of their job. You cannot expect one to do EVERYTHING in their daily life with attention to detail. If a Japanese person's job is to teach English or use English in a very professional setting where they are expected to speak correct English (and not just to get the point across) then they will learn it as required. They may still retain their accent but they'll speak with correct grammar. It can be extremely hard for a non-native English speaker to pick up the language. Grammar rules, pronunciations and exceptions are all over the place. It's unfair and very inconsiderate to judge someone based on this unless their job requires perfect English.
Ah yes, so should we also judge Englishmen by how well they use Japanese? What kind of anglocentric racist logic is this?
How about their excellence at using English, by the way? Their attention to detail when it comes to using other languages? I hope you realize how wrong it is to make blanket statements. "
As crazy as it sounds, the horrible English is because their fanatic adherence to pedagogical grammar and vocabulary cramming along with the fact that English's utility is mainly for university entrance exams. If you interact with any Japanese person from an elite university they will surprise you with their knowledge of English despite being unable to fluently communicate with English.
It is more an issue of conservatism than this so-called "culture of excellence".
The list is not too shabby.
Some things do suffer in Japan. On the other hand customer service is superb.
They're taught to do that since school, where students clean their own classrooms.
Even in the Olympics and World Cup etc., Japanese fans clean up after themselves, and other nations seem so impressed by that that it often comes up in the news:
https://www.reddit.com/r/videos/comments/8sck9f/japanese_fan...
Consider Tokyo, you'd think that a city with one of the highest and most dense metropolitan populations would generally be filthy and unhygienic, yet it's one of the cleanest.
It's because a lot of people's jobs is to clean. Look at how many folks clean up toilets in Tokyo, at certain places it's every 30 minutes.
There is no country in the world where things would stay clean without high frequency of cleaning, because statistically you only need one person out of a hundred or even less to make something dirty very very fast.
And Japanese cleanliness is true only when it comes to stuff at their door. How many times did I visit a beach where Japanese people who had a BBQ left all their garbage behind. On how many bottles and disposable bento boxes did I walk on after a large firework in summer.
In the mountains there are whole areas when you hike where all you see is garbage, because people throw stuff in nature without any regard for what it becomes.
yeah, how clean!
How is cleanliness and hygiene, whatever the reason and means, something negative?
How is the beach where Japanese people who had a BBQ left all their garbage behind, or bottles and disposable bento boxes laying around the streets, or mountains where there are whole areas filled with garbage you can see when hiking, whatever the reason and means, something positive?
We could do this all day, because it seems that you are missing the point. It is not all that clean and hygienic as other people seem to extrapolate. Japan has a lots of other issues that has been discussed in other areas of HN. I wish I had the link to a particular comment from a Japanese guy who told us just how misaligned our ideas of Japan (idealized view) and reality are.
With respect to the person who said that Japan has a culture of excellence, and said how Japanese people clean their desks: well, so do many Eastern Europeans (at least in my country), our cities are clean, and we do have companies here that put emphasis on efficiency and safety, but I would not say that we have a culture of excellence, or even dare to make assumptions about millions of people like this one: "that’s why even executives will clean up their desks and offices, something Americans wouldn’t even know how to start".
The commenter above claimed that, without providing any proof, in an attempt negate the comparatively higher standards of general hygiene in Japan that many visitors can immediately see.
Does a single tree in a desert make it a forest?
Does a single dead tree in a forest make it a desert?
Is Detroit an equally desirable place to live in as San Francisco?
Why is comparison suddenly such a hard concept to grasp?
A good book on this is "We were burning" Japanese were able to make chips with less defects simply because they were more clean and careful. Folks didn't even realize that specks of dust could ruin chip manufacturing. It was the observance that cleanliness leads to high yields that because the origin of clean room.
I read it in an article somewhere and can't remember the source, but:
For Americans, something is perfect if it's the best.
For Koreans, something is perfect if it's new.
For the Japanese, something is perfect if it has no flaws.
And it isn't a huge stretch to say for the Polish, something is perfect if it's inexpensive.
Anyway, speaking of the Japanese, an abacus might be seen as perfect if it's a perfectly crafted abacus. They might even be very proficient at using it (A pop science book I read mentions competitions between Americans armed with first electronic calculators, and a Japanese master abacus user, and the abacus user won). The rather extreme example is not to say the Japanese are backwards, but for illustration purposes. They may not always have the same priorities. It doesn't matter much you have superior ways of working with wood and paper if your towns regularly burn down and you have to settle on very, very wide streets to limit damage.
Japanese goods also littered the low end prior to Taiwan, Mexico, Korea, and China.
When they moved away from manufacturing, many of the companies that built their reputations with sophistication and quality licensed their brands to any third party who'd pay to slap on their ersatz and second rate products.
Capability isn't uniform.
I remember this very comment from many years ago, but I've always wondered what it meant. Could you possibly flesh it out?
As an aside, I met you at an HN meetup 7 or so years ago in Tokyo, how time flies. Hope all is well.
Maybe he meant this.
Deming was awarded Japan's Order of the Sacred Treasure, Second Class for:
The citation on the medal recognizes Deming's contributions to Japan's industrial rebirth and its worldwide success.
He literally got Japan into scientific quality control using statistic. It's also something that six-sigma came out of (see: https://qz.com/work/1635960/whatever-happened-to-six-sigma/).
I don't remember exactly his biography, but I remember he was mildly respected at the US, and that's why Japan called him. There he made his name, so when he returned, he was the most respected thinker of his area.
I'd also add in some Deming here, his "lesser category of obstacles" which I'd prefer to call "terminal illnesses of megacorps" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming#Seven_Deadly... - listed after Seven Deadly Diseases.
It's because of William Edward Deming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming.
After WWII Deming was trying to get quality control using statistic to American Automakers. They didn't like it so he left for Japan. This is at least the story I've heard from my professors in quality control and statistic. The wikipedia is different in term of he started in Japan first and later on Ford hire him in the 1980s.