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Re:The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars by chillacy on Saturday October 05, 2019 @03:35PM (#21167460)
> People don't want "hand outs" or "charity", they want to do something to generate value

Agreed that it will be a cultural shift: there is a divide between meaning and economics.

People need meaning in life, but meaningful work and economic value aren't always the same.

Raising children or providing caregiving to the elderly can be very meaningful and happens to pay poorly. Building community is incredibly meaningful, and is usually volunteer work right now.

> People go all in on retraining (even though it obviously can't work for everyone)

I've heard that federal retraining programs have a success rate (defined as difference between placebo of nothing) of 0-15%. The current government solution to displaced workers is in practice is getting on disability.

Re:The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars by pnutjam on Saturday October 05, 2019 @06:23PM (#21168371)
Without all the hoops to jump through and prove disability or attend useless classes, people would largely find productive things to do. Sure it might disrupt other businesses, but if I had all the free time in the world and enough money, I'd find something to do. Maybe I'd start my own small farm, or sell prepared meals, or sharpen knives professionally, or run a political campaign, or volunteer for my favorite charity. You know, the kinds of stuff well off rich kids do.

Why is everyone so convinced people need to be told what to do to stay busy and engaged in the world?

Re:The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars by Consultant32452 on Saturday October 05, 2019 @05:23PM (#21168057)
I think you'll have a much harder time convincing women to not base sexual selection, at least in part, on resource gathering. That's pretty ingrained, and not just culture.
Re:The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars by chillacy on Sunday October 06, 2019 @05:13PM (#21175179)
Not sure I follow, what does this have to do with meaning and work?

And even in a post-scarcity society, some things (like attention and social status) will always be valuable.

Re:The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars by Consultant32452 on Monday October 07, 2019 @12:11AM (#21177363)
The whole discussion is built on a fantasy socialist utopia where the robots do all the work and we just issue everyone a paycheck to not work. Socialists have been singing this song since the beginning of socialism. It will never work because it doesn't match with human nature. Some kind of work must be found, and people will demand differential outcomes based on that work. People will destroy the robots before they let this socialist u/dys-topia come to fruition.
Re:The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars by chillacy on Monday October 07, 2019 @02:09AM (#21177959)
Well people will always "work", but I think the nature of what we consider "work" and "outcomes" might be different.

In our current scenario "work" is generate economic value, and "outcome" is dollars.

In another scenario "work" could be stories / media, and "outcomes" could be attention.

In another, "work" is playing video games, "outcome" is level.

In all these scenarios you have people feeling the dopamine and at some level deriving satisfaction. It seems a bit dystopian (and anti-social) even to me, but if we're just talking about "human limitations on society" then I don't see why it couldn't be the case.

If we really lived in a post-scarcity world like The Culture, I'd imagine we'd have to evolve how we think about "work" and "outcome" in the same way that most of us no longer "work" for the glory of god for an "outcome" in the afterlife.

Re:The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars by Consultant32452 on Monday October 07, 2019 @01:12PM (#21183302)
>post-scarcity world

Well, we don't live in a fictional world. We live in a real world.

Re:The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars by swagasaurus-rex on Saturday October 05, 2019 @08:38PM (#21168979)
Then men will continue trying, as they have since time immemorial.
Re:The GM strike is really about the switch to electric cars by Consultant32452 on Saturday October 05, 2019 @10:21PM (#21169407)
Exactly. A cultural change is big, but this is even bigger than culture, it's hard wired in our genes since before humans even became a species. So there will never be a magical fairy land where people just accept equal economic outcomes gifted to us by the robots. So we have to start there and figure out a different solution, the suggested solution is a nonstarter.