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Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by Aqua on Friday September 27, 2019 @03:20AM (#21089315)
How come none of that came into light before the leak of his emails? This is quite curious, don't you think? I've read the emails and from the looks of it he just says that there's not enough evidence to condemn someone for their alleged misconduct. I'm very skeptical about all these "revelations", this entire thing appears to be media manipulation. I recommend the book "Trust me, I'm lying", it's eye-opening.
Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by tutfbhuf on Friday September 27, 2019 @07:09AM (#21090576)
> Many years ago I posted that I could not see anything wrong about sex between an adult and a child, if the child accepted it. - RMS Quote https://stallman.org/archives/2019-jul-oct.html#14_September...

You don't have to trust the media. RMS himself confirms that he was wrong in the past, at least regarding child abuse.

Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by dependenttypes on Friday September 27, 2019 @07:47AM (#21090805)
You are assuming that Aqua implies that Stallman publishing his personal opinions in his blog was the issue. While this might be true, for me at least the real revelations were posts like https://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/status/1173981287037751297 and https://twitter.com/jilliancyork/status/1173898047878598656 - which constitute actual unacceptable behaviour but can't easily be verified.
Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by craigsmansion on Friday September 27, 2019 @03:28PM (#21095460)
I'm sorry, but:

"I hosted rms many years ago in the 90’s, what was supposed to be hosting your hero for a ~3 day thing became a ~2 month nightmare."

Did Miguel ask him to leave? Or did he just sit around passive-aggressively for 3 whole months? Also, rms called Miguel "a traitor to the Free Software community" at some point, and now with the whole MIT business, he gets in with the twitter defamation league spouting off his grievances. That's pretty much beyond cowardly and into despicable territory.

Jillian's story is pretty much the entire problem in a nutshell:

"an older female colleague recommended at a whisper that I lock myself in my office."

"She later told me it was because he gets touchy"

"Over the years, I heard all sorts of things of this nature, and warned women who might not be in the know"

Maybe this older female colleague was told the same things at some point? Why is every single allegation hearsay from twitter?

"instructing them on how to properly make tea"

Yes, rms can be very particular about minor things. If you did not know even this, why are you writing about "things about rms others should know"?

Also, again EFF connections. Do they even want to pretend to be useful anymore, outside of cluelessly abusing people on twitter for kicks?

Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by dependenttypes on Saturday September 28, 2019 @06:13AM (#21099513)
You are sorry about what? I myself said that these stories can't easily be verified. I only suggested an alternative understanding of Aqua's post to tutfbhuf
Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by craigsmansion on Saturday September 28, 2019 @01:43PM (#21101718)
Sorry about not finding myself in agreement over what would be a "real revelation", but I might have misunderstood. My apologies.
Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by virgilp on Friday September 27, 2019 @09:58AM (#21092030)
What is the exact unacceptable behaviour that you linked to? (Sorry, navigating twitter sucks, I honestly am unsure what you're talking about). From the second link I get two things - second-hand tale that "he gets touchy" (hasn't ever happened to her directly I guess? Or we would've known). And first-hand tale that he abused organizers by instructing them how to make tea; she assumes it's because organizers are women, but from what I know RMS would abuse organizers regardless of gender. He was weird and hard to live with, much less please. Yes I can believe that (it's something that Miguel de Icaza apparently complains about). But this is not a crime!
Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by dependenttypes on Friday September 27, 2019 @11:24AM (#21092972)
The tea case and the de Icaza case might not be crimes but they are still unacceptable behaviour imo.
Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by virgilp on Friday September 27, 2019 @01:41PM (#21094347)
You don't have to like him to recognise injustice.

People are literally celebrating a "long overdue" injustice because they don't like the man, so "he had it coming". I don't know how can anyone not find this unsetting.

Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by dependenttypes on Saturday September 28, 2019 @06:10AM (#21099503)
> You don't have to like him to recognise injustice.

I never said otherwise. If you look at my comment history you will see that I am against the injustice against RMS.

Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by Aqua on Friday September 27, 2019 @02:30PM (#21094852)
I'm sorry, but like I already stated, both tweets you linked were published after the initial story went viral. I'm not saying these people are lying, I'm saying I tend to take such revelations with a grain of salt after reading "trust me, I'm lying", I highly recommend it if you've got a few spare hours. In short, blogs, popular twitter accounts and so on tend to lie and spread misinformation in order to gain more followers. I don't know these people, I don't know if whatever they claim is credible, thus I don't automatically assume they speak the truth.
Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by dependenttypes on Saturday September 28, 2019 @06:14AM (#21099518)
See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21099513

I certainly agree with you.

Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by thomasz on Friday September 27, 2019 @03:31AM (#21089380)
It seems to have been pretty much public knowledge in the circles that interacted with RMS. It's just that nobody cared enough to act.
Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by passwordreset on Friday September 27, 2019 @04:35AM (#21089719)
I have interacted with RMS. He stayed at a friend's house, and I went to one of his lectures. Though I'm not a friend of the man, I know that what you're saying was not true, at least during the time that me and my friends met with him.

This type of rumor mongering is hurtful and should be opposed.

Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by lorenzhs on Friday September 27, 2019 @05:08AM (#21089882)
"He didn't harass women during the two days I interacted with him, therefore he has never done so" is not as strong a defense as you seem to think.
Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by KSteffensen on Friday September 27, 2019 @05:43AM (#21090067)
"I heard somebody say he harassed women, so he must have done so" is also not as strong an attack as you seem to think.
Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by bmsleight_ on Friday September 27, 2019 @06:24AM (#21090305)
When did you stop beating your wife ?
Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by lostjohnny on Friday September 27, 2019 @06:22AM (#21090285)
> He didn't harass women during the two days I interacted with him, therefore he has never done so

Exactly, he's innocent until proven guilty, like everybody else.

You're implying that "I heard from someone that heard it from someone else, that heard it from their dad, that read it on a mailing list, 20 years ago, that he did, therefore ho did"

Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by lostjohnny on Friday September 27, 2019 @06:20AM (#21090274)
> It seems

seems does not qualify as evidence

> circles that interacted with RMS

Like Thomas Lord?

https://archive.is/7qepC

Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by jacobush on Friday September 27, 2019 @07:37AM (#21090736)
You don't there is enough mud to go around? MIT can do the Yogi Berra schtick by throwing Stallman out. But if so, it still does not automatically follow that it was the wrong thing to do.
Re:Stallman Still Heading the GNU Project by lostjohnny on Friday September 27, 2019 @07:49AM (#21090823)
> You don't there is enough mud to go around?

I think there is only mud, not based on any real issue with what Stallman said or did.

> does not automatically follow that it was the wrong thing to do.

It does.

FSF main goal was freedom and protecting fundamental liberties of each individual

Stallman main contribution to FSF was the GPL, a legal framework, FSF main contribution was pro bono legal support defending free software in court.

So, yeah, if FSF cannot defend its founder, most popular and most honorable member, it becomes basically useless, it follows it was the wrong thing to do.

Their reputation was based on trust, trust has been broken.