News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by TaylorAlexander on Thursday September 26, 2019 @07:53PM (#21086958)
I’m not a Tesla owner but it does seem to me that buying in to the company that has single handedly changed the landscape of electric vehicles is a pretty exciting notion. I’d be happier to have a vehicle built on seemingly better principles and support the company even if they’re not perfect. But then I use Linux even though it’s difficult at times because what I am using is more important than any specific flaws it has.
Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by rainyMammoth on Thursday September 26, 2019 @07:59PM (#21087011)
It occurs to me that I would equate Mac to Tesla and Linux to a car in which you get full access to the engine and are able to change any piece you want.

Tesla is the opposite of Linux philosophy.

Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by TaylorAlexander on Thursday September 26, 2019 @10:03PM (#21087747)
Well I agree if you mean “hackable open system”, but I meant it as “product which I agree with ideologically even if the specific user experience is sometimes inferior”.
Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by greglindahl on Thursday September 26, 2019 @11:42PM (#21088207)
After I got a Tesla I had a lot of fun writing javascript software for the big touchscreen. It was especially cool for hackathons. YMMV.
Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by Erlich_Bachman on Friday September 27, 2019 @04:52AM (#21089800)
Pretty sure there are regulations and just common sense preventing allowing people to hack and tinker with their car software, as that would be very dangerous both for the owners and for the public when such cars would be driving on public roads.
Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by whenchamenia on Friday September 27, 2019 @10:29AM (#21092377)
Nope, only epa registered emissions affecting stuff is verboten. But even that seems unenforced, as you can find ecu tuners and piggybacks everywhere. I have personally tuned my older cars to have better emissions, so its not only for racers and the environmentally unconcerned.

Tldr; I drive a fleet of hacked cars on the road daily. Its fine.

Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by boznz on Friday September 27, 2019 @12:16AM (#21088358)
ALL cars sold today are the opposite of the linux philosophy
Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by Phillipharryt on Friday September 27, 2019 @01:57AM (#21088878)
How?? You can service your own car unless you're looking at something ridiculous like a Bugatti or Mclaren. You can modify them to any legal extent.
Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by nicoster on Friday September 27, 2019 @05:55PM (#21096619)
the big difference is that this 'Linux' is powered by gas.
Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by kybernetikos on Friday September 27, 2019 @03:23AM (#21089332)
> Tesla is the opposite of Linux philosophy.

It literally records and reports back to HQ. If you ever make any statement that Tesla doesn't like, they will use what should be your own data against you.

Surveillance capitalism. Ownership as a service.

They also restrict the repairability via software.

It's as far from gnu as its possible to be.

Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by xedeon on Friday September 27, 2019 @06:02AM (#21090156)
> It literally records and reports back to HQ. If you ever make any statement that Tesla doesn't like, they will use what should be your own data against you.

Wow. Take out the tinfoil hat Sir. I'll PayPal you $1000USD if you can cite this ridiculous claim.

> They also restrict the repairability via software.

You CAN perform repairs on them, you can even access the parts catalog (https://epc.teslamotors.com) for free when most manufacturers charge for this or even restrict it to dealers only. Need a part? Just call up a service center!

Many people have also refurbished Tesla battery packs and even rebuilt salvaged cars: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/my-first-model-3-reb...

Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by kybernetikos on Friday September 27, 2019 @03:33PM (#21095498)
>> It literally records and reports back to HQ. If you ever make any statement that Tesla doesn't like, they will use what should be your own data against you.

> Wow. Take out the tinfoil hat Sir. I'll PayPal you $1000USD if you can cite this ridiculous claim.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/apr/03/the-custo...

https://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/14/that-tesla-data-... about this ridiculously detailed releasing of data https://www.tesla.com/blog/most-peculiar-test-drive

https://electrek.co/2016/05/11/tesla-model-s-crashed-own-sum...

or Teslas own privacy policy, which says that they may remotely collect telematics data including speed, odmeter, battery charging, use of charging stations (linked to location), infotainment system data, camera images, short video clips, lock/unlock data, horn honking, etc. They also collect detailed position data in many cases, but say that they store it in a non identifiable way. While the policy doesn't specifically mention recording torque applied to the steering wheel, presumably they must include that somewhere, as they have announced to the press that the user didn't have their hands on the steering wheel. The policy also says that they "also may use information we collect for other purposes, including: For our business purposes", a vague and expansive definition. We've seen in the examples above what they consider this to include - disputing customers accounts of what happened if it makes Tesla look bad.

https://www.tesla.com/about/legal

I presume your offer of payment was hyperbole, but in my view, even if you disagree with the links I posted, I have certainly cited the claim. Email [email protected] if you actually intend to back up your words.

Re:Tesla Software Version 10.0 by xedeon on Friday September 27, 2019 @04:26PM (#21095947)
The issue with your examples is that it's almost always an irresponsible customer claiming that the car came to life and "moved on its own" or "accelerated by itself". I'd take an official government report or a legal case where Tesla is found at fault or for privacy violations please.

These customers almost always sue, but thankfully the U.S. justice system favors factual information.

A prime example of this was the recently released NTSB data on the Model S driver that crashed on the back of a Firetruck. The media had a field day and sensationalized the story and the owner tried to blame autopilot.

But the NTSB report noted that not only did he had his hands off the wheel he was also having breakfast!:

“I was having a coffee and a bagel. And all I remember, that truck, and then I just saw the boom in my face and that was it,” the driver told NTSB investigators."

Source: https://www.culvercityobserver.com/story/2019/09/05/news/nts...

NTSB Safety Report: https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/AccidentReports/Pages/HA...

The report states that probable cause was the Tesla driver’s lack of response and inattention and the driver’s use of the system in ways inconsistent with guidance and warnings from the manufacturer.

So tell me, how can Tesla defend itself from such customers who abuse and misuse these 2 ton machines? I'm curious on what you think is the best approach to solve this "he said/she said" problem by not using factual and irrefutable data.