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Re:Update from Chef by 75dvtwin on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:35PM (#21052011)
People mention that ICE polices are Obama-era polices, because it shows something.

It shows that the people in US, are influenced, to a large degree by selective outrage.

Selective outrage, is not just a sign of intellectual dishonesty.

Selective outrage leads to selective justice, selective justice leads to unfair justice, and that leads to Orwellian state or dictatorship.

So showing the poison in selective outrage is totally appropriate.

Re:Update from Chef by huntedsnark on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:06PM (#21052379)
Many people are upset about the child separation and detention policies which were not standard under the Obama administration as opposed to deportation. Conflating the two seems to embody the same intellectual dishonesty you're railing against.

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/09/711446917/fact-check-trump-wr...

Re:Update from Chef by human20190310 on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:13PM (#21053086)
Even assuming outrage is selective, the question remains: was the outrage inappropriately withheld before, or is it inappropriately applied now?

If indeed it was inappropriately withheld in the past, I don't see any moral necessity to remain consistent, even if the flip-flopping turns out to be politically convenient.

Re:Update from Chef by PhasmaFelis on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:06PM (#21052376)
Intellectual dishonesty is pretending that Trump's policies are identical to Obama's.

For example, at least one of the infamous chain-link-cage detention centers was indeed built under Obama. That's worth knowing, and it's also worth knowing that, by law, children were to be kept there for no more than 72 hours before being transferred to better quarters.

The zero-tolerance policy that separated children from parents as the norm rather than an exception, that resulted in children being stuffed in those cages far beyond their intended capacity and left there for weeks, in unsanitary conditions, was all Trump. The deaths of an unprecedented seven children in one year in ICE custody, despite the total number of detainees nationwide being lower, was on Trump's watch.

Sources:

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-build-cages-immigran...

https://www.apnews.com/fdfbafe1f2784a759bc7c3a8e8ddbcab

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/why-are-migrant-children...

Downvoters: I'm curious if you believe my facts are incorrect, or if you're just downvoting because you don't like my politics.

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Re:Update from Chef by mieseratte on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:19PM (#21052536)
> by this government's disgraceful and abhorrent behavior

What abhorrent behavior? They've attempted to disincentive people abusing asylum policies. You don't have to come and apply for false asylum, and you're free to self-deport.

Re:Update from Chef by PhasmaFelis on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @10:35AM (#21060610)
> What abhorrent behavior?

Did you ignore my comment two comments up from yours? Read it, and the links.

Re:Update from Chef by mcphage on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:24PM (#21052580)
> They've attempted to disincentive people abusing asylum policies.

What a miserable, angry world you inhabit, that you're willing to hurt some of the most vulnerable people on the planet, because of a useless worry that someone somewhere might be taking advantage of us.

Re:Update from Chef by mieseratte on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:28PM (#21052617)
Consider I've witnessed the economic damage that unchecked migration causes, first-hand, I'm rather right to be angry that our politicians let this problem fester for decades at the expense of our nation's poorest.

Perhaps you should climb down off of your ivory tower and visit blue-collar America from time to time. You're accusing me of hurting others, while defending policies that... hurt others.

Re:Update from Chef by enraged_camel on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:50PM (#21052843)
>> unchecked migration

There is no "unchecked migration" to the United States. There's a hard cap on the number of refugees that can be admitted every year, and the asylum process is long, complex, and stressful.

Over the past 10 years, more than 50% of asylum claims have been denied. So it's not like claiming asylum comes with any sort of guarantees either.

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Re:Update from Chef by rhcom2 on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:05PM (#21052999)
> Something like 90+% of claimants disappear after their initial catch-and-release at US /

That was just a lie Pence told.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/06/26/how-many-...

Re:Update from Chef by mieseratte on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @05:59AM (#21058203)
No, Washington Post is referring to a different set of statistics to attempt to discredit Pence's more specific claims.

The claim is regarding the current flow on the southern border, not historical trends across the nation as was cited. It's an apples-to-oranges comparison.

This is like that old chestnut, "Bill Gates and I have a combined average net-worth of 40 billion dollars!"

Well, I have none and he has 80 billion. You can't use broad statistics to disregard specific, regional trends.

Re:Update from Chef by rhcom2 on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @10:48AM (#21060769)
I'd love a citation for your 90% number then because I couldn't find any information broken down by location of border crossing.
Re:Update from Chef by mcphage on Sunday September 29, 2019 @10:19PM (#21111219)
It's been almost a week, and your parent poster still hasn't presented any citations... I'm beginning to suspect that there might not be any...
Re:Update from Chef by FireBeyond on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:06PM (#21053016)
It is not illegal, in any situation, to _apply_ for asylum. It is up to the government to evaluate. If granted, it is inherently legal. If not, well, still not illegal to apply for asylum.

> Something like 90+% of claimants disappear after their initial catch-and-release

Citation needed. The claimants who are eligible for release are ones that _CBP_ deemed low risk, and are fitted with ankle monitors. They're also only released in the first place because we make very little (to now nearly zero) effort to process them in a timely manner.

Re:Update from Chef by jigglesniggle on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:24PM (#21053183)
It may be legal to apply for asylum but it is still a misdemeanor to enter the US without proper authorization. How these two things may interact is up for debate, but there is plenty of legal precedent that these "gotchas" are intentional.

Arguably if the migrants are not stopping to apply at a port of entry then they broke the law.

Re:Update from Chef by mieseratte on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @05:58AM (#21058192)
> The claimants who are eligible for release are ones that _CBP_ deemed low risk, and are fitted with ankle monitors.

How about you provide a citation.

Re:Update from Chef by FireBeyond on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @06:38PM (#21065386)
https://www.apnews.com/ed3d75ce348d4be3bc7fdf02bc43e1d6

> Families are given court dates, a head of household is often fitted with an ankle monitor, and they are dropped off at a charity-run shelter or bus station.

https://www.apnews.com/dfcdc6302e154753a526c04706df45d6

https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-electronic-m...

> Electronic monitoring devices, or ankle monitors, are increasingly being used as ATDs since Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officials have found them to be both economical and effective. Motivated by cost savings, their use is appropriate for immigrants who are neither a flight or safety risk

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/nation/2019/09/23/imm...

> private contractor, BI Industries Inc., monitors migrants through check-ins at ICE offices, in-person home visits, telephonic monitoring and electronic ankle bracelets. ICE determines how a migrant will be monitored based on factors including flight risk and likelihood of showing up to court.

Acceptable?

Re:Update from Chef by enraged_camel on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:10PM (#21053059)
Incorrect. Take a look at the Department of Justice's own official statistics:

https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1107056/download

Page 33 shows that, from FY 2013 to 2017, more than 92% of asylum applicants have in fact appeared in court to receive their final decision.

Re:Update from Chef by mieseratte on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @05:59AM (#21058201)
I'm not talking about all, I'm talk about the folks attempting at the southern US border. Apples to oranges.
Re:Update from Chef by enraged_camel on Tuesday September 24, 2019 @01:36PM (#21062623)
Surely you have statistics to back up your assertion then?