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Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by _the_inflator on Monday September 23, 2019 @03:55AM (#21046791)
> GUIs of old had a specific design language. Like: File, Edit, Window, Help in the menubar -- always consistent, always in the same order, and always containing the same thing. Min/max/close buttons in the upper-right.

Mistake #1: Windows != GUI

Apple has/had another design language. But Apple got it more right. Ironically Steve Jobs fulfilled Bill Gates mission (~a computer in household) with the iPhone.

Mistake #2: "If one knows the GUI language they can use almost any application for many solutions at a basic level."

No and no. It becomes clearer that this is exactly the hard part: figuring how to provide value to users without telling them they are too stupid to use our software and we need to educate them first. If you build the iPhone it really would be just another Windows device. ;)

> Which also means that when something goes wrong you have no control over fixing it -- you're simply fucked

You are not. In the end, all a user tries to do is changing a value in a database.

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by agent008t on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:41AM (#21047029)
A Linux/Windows computer in a household is a device that allows both consuming and creating. Many, if not most of us got into creating using a computer just by having access to one and being curious.

An iPhone or an iPad is just a device for consumption. It completely hides, if not locks you out of, the underlying workings of the device, meaning that you learn nothing and you create nothing.

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by shantly on Monday September 23, 2019 @11:27AM (#21049802)
> An iPhone or an iPad is just a device for consumption.

Absurd. There are a huge number of tasks for which, if I'm only allowed one device to accomplish it, I'd definitely take an iPad over a laptop. Practically anything involving photography or recording video or audio, for instance. Many sorts of art. Music, depending on the task. If allowed an external keyboard it's better than a laptop for writing in some environments—the decoupled device & keyboard allow for more flexibility in arranging print outs, books, and any other stuff you need.

For some of it an iPhone, even, is better than a laptop or desktop. And it fits in my pocket. A laptop doesn't.

Slab-of-glass type computers are worse at some things than traditional desktops and laptops but wildly better than "normal" computer at a ton of others, especially given space or budget constraints. The statement that tablets and phones are consumption devices to a greater degree than other computers is very wrong and I can't believe it keeps popping up so often, after all this time.

[EDIT] I also object to dividing consumption and creation so neatly. Consumption is part of all sorts of creation tasks. Maybe most. When you look something up on SO has a switch flipped and now you're "consuming" rather than "creating"? If I'm reading a recipe on my tablet is that consumption? What if I'm cooking at the same time? Scanning back through a video on some home improvement project to check my work while I'm working? For that matter, add "basically anything that involves doing things in the real world" to the list of creative activities for which I'd take a phone or tablet to assist me, both as a relevant-media display device and as a tool itself, over a laptop. I use my iPhone a ton just about any time I do actual doing-real-world-stuff work.

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by tomc1985 on Monday September 23, 2019 @01:17PM (#21051011)
Every 'creative' app I've used on IOS has been disappointing. Even if the GUI is decent touch detection is so imprecise that its always super easy to fat-finger things. FLStudio vs FL mobile, for example

When I was younger I thought it would be cool to DJ with a three-iPad setup-- two ipads acting like a turntable/CDJ and a third acting as a mixer. Nowadays, putting on my performer hat, I would hate that setup as I feel like I would be fighting with the touch interface. I'll take real buttons and knobs on dedicated hardware any day of the week.

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by shantly on Monday September 23, 2019 @02:05PM (#21051644)
Well yeah, of course dedicated pro hardware's gonna be better. Physical knobs and buttons are awesome. Most'd probably take those over a PC keyboard (the qwerty type, not like a midi keyboard), too, for real work in music, if not allowed both. I'm not claiming iOS devices do everything really well, but if you just want a portable all-in-one creation device for a wide variety of needs and don't care about programming very much there's a good chance a tablet's gonna serve you quite well.

I find the iPad great for drawing (with Pencil) and anywhere from pretty good to great for all kinds of other creative work, especially compared to a PC/laptop with either having only its out-of-the-box equipment (no big add-ons), which is to say it's excellent for hobbyists, small-timers or newbies to a whole bunch of creative fields. But of course I can also watch Netflix on it, and it's nearly useless for dev work except as a terminal device, so... that makes it consumption-focused while PCs are creation focused I guess? I mean I've been using PCs since the DOS days so I'm not some touchscreen native, but the assertion just doesn't make any sense to me, yet it keeps coming up in developer circles. I don't see them (primarily-touchscreen portables) in my life and the way I see them used by others as any more consumption-focused than PCs, really, they're just good at a bunch of stuff PCs aren't so great at, and bad at some stuff PCs are good at. I do not understand the source of that claim, a single bit, unless "consumption" is "anything that's not computer programming".

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by Angostura on Monday September 23, 2019 @05:18AM (#21047222)
You should have a play with Shortcuts on the iPhone - or Swift Playground, or any other the plethora of 3rd party coding platforms that run on iOS.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by agent008t on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:18AM (#21048175)
By being given an iPhone/iPad and clicking around, you wouldn't even learn about what a filesystem is, let alone about anything else in terms of how your device works.

On a PC, just by being bored you can learn quite a bit about how the OS works; you can access devtools from a browser; you can learn tons and tons by trying to get some old/obscure game to work; you can google "how to make a game" which would probably lead you to a download page for python, which you could install and start writing some scripts; you could easily stumble upon Blender and some tutorials and start 3D modelling.

Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by Angostura on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:48PM (#21053453)
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by cameronbrown on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:56AM (#21047994)
Most of these are for education and not real work.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by rienbdj on Monday September 23, 2019 @08:58AM (#21048456)
you have a very narrow idea of what creating is. non programming tasks don't require low level system access.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by tomc1985 on Monday September 23, 2019 @01:20PM (#21051053)
Realtime, low-latency audio does, though
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by bitwize on Monday September 23, 2019 @12:35PM (#21050530)
iPhones and iPads have plenty of creation tools available. What you say is more true of Android, which is fundamentally an advertisement delivery platform.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by cameronbrown on Monday September 23, 2019 @07:58AM (#21048010)
Nit pick: Bill Gates achieved his mission of a computer in every household long before iPhone. Jobs just changed the paradigm to a computer in every pocket.
Re:The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than Yo... by EliRivers on Monday September 23, 2019 @12:28PM (#21050442)
Mistake #1: Windows != GUI

I think that's only true in a literal sense. For many people, it's untrue in a practical sense, and those people live in a practical world.