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Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by nitwit005 on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:26PM (#21032626)
> First, we should expect ordinary people to donate more to politics.

My mother donated once to some Democratic volunteer who came to her door. They hounded her for more donations. She got mailings, phone calls, multiple people at her door. She vowed never to give them another cent.

Perhaps an unusually bad experience, but generally you do get punished this way for donating. I emptied my grandmother's mailbox when she became ill, and due to her charitable giving, it was absolutely crammed with political and charity mailings.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by danShumway on Friday September 20, 2019 @09:00PM (#21032786)
This matches my experience.

I like to give to charities, but I've built up a couple of rules:

- I won't give you a credit card number, because I've seen too many dark patterns about canceling recurring donations. It stinks for online giving because Paypal is awful, but it's basically the only way I can guarantee that I won't need to make phone calls if my giving habits change.

- You always get a unique email address that I can cancel or sort, no matter who you are. Fastmail thankfully makes this very easy.

- Unless I really trust you not to mail me, I won't give you my real address.

Patreon, for all of its problems, has the right idea here. Donors control their subscriptions, and their addresses/emails aren't shared by default. I'd love a similar service for more conventional giving.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by Perseids on Saturday September 21, 2019 @06:50AM (#21034572)
> You always get a unique email address that I can cancel or sort, no matter who you are. Fastmail thankfully makes this very easy

Is that possible with Fastmail without having your own domain? I've been looking for a mail provider where you can create unlimited mail addresses to prevent me from being tracked across services for some time now. The problem with using your own domain ([email protected] [email protected] etc) is that only laziness of not implementing automatic domain matching is keeping my identities separate.

If anybody knows of a mail provider who provides that (even with random mailbox names like [email protected]) I would be grateful if you could let me know.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by danShumway on Saturday September 21, 2019 @09:02AM (#21035103)
Yes. Aliases are one of the best features Fastmail has, and they work exactly how you're describing -- you just pick a word and you have that email address. (`[email protected]`, or `[email protected]`, or whatever) If you're done with an email address but you don't want to delete it, you can also disable aliases without giving them up, so email will bounce, but you still technically own it and nobody else will be able to register it.

They're not literally unlimited, but the limit is high enough that in practice, you can have a separate email address for every service that you use.

I do have my own domain, but I don't typically use it for most 3rd-party services. The reason I like aliases more is because if I use the gmail trick or my own domain, there's still a unique piece of information that's tied to my name. In other words, it's still identifying.

Most spammers know to strip the pluses from gmail accounts, so you're not really doing anything at all by adding those. And even if a spammer can't guess your other email addresses, they still know who you are. I'm not particularly secretive about my identity online -- I use my real name as my handle. So it's not even always about blocking spam -- sometimes you want to use an email without giving a company a very obvious link to who you are.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by Perseids on Saturday September 21, 2019 @04:09PM (#21037636)
Thank you!
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by vinay427 on Saturday September 21, 2019 @07:14AM (#21034629)
You can use Gmail with the plus '+' tags or extra dots '.' in the address.

e.g. [email protected], [email protected], etc.

I did this for years before switching to a custom domain and it worked very well for me.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by danShumway on Saturday September 21, 2019 @09:07AM (#21035126)
The problem is that most spammers know how to strip the plus tags, or can strip the dots to associate you across multiple accounts.

I think of throwaway addresses the same way as I think of a VPN. I shouldn't be the only person on the domain I'm using, and there shouldn't be any persistent information in the address.

With Fastmail, the only information I have to give up is that it is a Fastmail account. I can have `<some_random_string>@fastmail.com`, which makes it much harder for an advertiser or spammer to link my identity from that email to another one.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by __s on Saturday September 21, 2019 @12:38AM (#21033550)
Does anyone have experience with GiveWell as a proxy to avoid these issues?
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by bonniemuffin on Saturday September 21, 2019 @01:32AM (#21033687)
I donate to multiple charities through Givewell, and I allow them to release my contact info, which means the charities know who I am. But I believe they have an option to hide your contact info so that you're donating anonymously to the charities. So in that case, only Givewell will have your contact info.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by simplify on Saturday September 21, 2019 @02:42AM (#21033889)
donorbox.org also allows donors to control their subscriptions AFAIK.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by m463 on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:31PM (#21033129)
I had the same problem. I got follow on requests flooding, then overwhelming me to the point of frustration and then annoyance.

Much later I listened to a podcast or ted talk of someone who talked about charity. I believe she worked with nonprofits as her day job.

I was listening to her expecting to understand altruism, to find out how and why people donate money, and how they find worthy causes along with decent organizations to donate to.

The one thing that stuck with me was when she asserted that the number one reason people will donate to your charity is: Have they donated before.

This gave me an unexpected glimpse behind the curtain at what motivates organizations to over-contact their previous benefactors.

It made me a little sad too, reminding me a little of the petting zoo. You take a young kid to the petting zoo to interact with the animals. But then they see this tiny child has a handful of food, and you are surrounded by crazy goats that chase the helpless youngster until she throws the food and runs away.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by mmanfrin on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:36PM (#21032679)
Honestly, unfortunately: same.

Nearly every time I've donated to something political, it's come to bite me in the ass. Donate to a candidate? They sell/give my info to related PACs and groups (and there's no stopping it, because it's considered political speech to solicit for donations). Last time I gave money to one of the fundraisers with vests that hang around downtown, my credit card got charged at an eastern European online retailer.

I feel the only real way to avoid this is to donate through an anonymous vehicle, but I believe anonymous political donation vehicles and everything that came with the Citizens United decision to be at the core of the rot in our system.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by ALittleLight on Friday September 20, 2019 @09:06PM (#21032809)
I wonder if there is a service that could handle the donation and subsequent trashing of incoming correspondence for you. Although, I also wonder about giving money to annoying people.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by vkou on Saturday September 21, 2019 @02:08AM (#21033786)
The core of the rot is not anonymous donations. At the end of the day, nobody actually cares that Candidate X is receiving money from Puppykillers Inc.

The problem is that Candidate X owes her success to donated money. She is now beholden to her donors, not her constituents. Democracy, for sale by the dollar isn't democracy, it's a slide into oligarchy.

The only solution to this problem is public-only funding of campaigns.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by thephyber on Saturday September 21, 2019 @09:37PM (#21039082)
> The only solution to this problem is public-only funding of campaigns.

I fail to see how that addresses any of the issues we have "earned media" from the cable "news" propaganda (I'm not using that word lightly here) networks or the "Citizen's United" style documentary production which would not likely be curtailed by the change you propose. All you do is shift the money from being thrown at the 16 minutes per hour of advertisement blocks to the 44 minutes per hour where we don't notice we are being advertised to.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by 7952 on Saturday September 21, 2019 @04:00AM (#21034085)
At that point you have just placed a limit on spending which is what some other countries do anyway. Personally I think we should move towards banning the use of any paid for media in politics. If candidates want to reach voters they should do it in person or using social media. And voters should be able to ignore some candidates and listen to others based on who they follow. And candidates should need to succeed without the normal public sphere rather than the weaponised media landscape.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by AceJohnny2 on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:58PM (#21032774)
As counterpoint: I've donated to the Great Slate [1], a panel of Democrat long-shots in historically underserved areas. (I'd heard of them in large part thanks to Maciej/idlewords [2])

I've gotten emails, sure, but they respect unsubscribe. From that experience, I'm comfortable donating again through ActBlue [3], the donation platform they used.

[1] https://techsolidarity.org/resources/great_slate.html

[2] related: https://idlewords.com/2019/05/what_i_learned_trying_to_secur...

[3] https://secure.actblue.com/

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by ianai on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:37PM (#21033337)
ActBlue seems pretty good. They centralize all donations and clearly present all recurring charges in a management page.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by opportune on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:56PM (#21032764)
Yeah the Bernie campaign sends me what seems like 10 texts per week since I donated, I honestly don’t understand it because it must really fatigue most people. Maybe it optimized donations over some small A/B test but I will absolutely find a way to get off this mailing list ASAP if it continues. Every single ask for more money has some seemingly urgent reason for it but you can’t use that repeatedly over long durations! It reminds me of the story someone once posted here where every task was a P0 for the PM and eventually they started calling things P-1, P-2, etc

Even once a week sounds like a lot but averaging more than one per day is just ridiculous.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by chrisdsaldivar on Saturday September 21, 2019 @12:29AM (#21033527)
I was taken off the sms list “effective immediately” because they asked if I was ready to Feel the Bern and I responded with a gif of Hulk Hogan in front of a giant American flag saying “Hell yeah brother!”

I was just trying to be a patriotic millennial but it got me off the sms list so silver lining I guess. Now I donate whenever I have the spare cash and I don’t have to worry about them blowing up my phone.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by seisvelas on Saturday September 21, 2019 @12:21AM (#21033500)
The Yang campaign has emailed but is extremely polite. I don't live in the US but since being on the mailing list, the donation solicitations were respectful and only moderately frequent. I still unsubscribed.

I think this pattern really caught fire when Obama heavily employed it in 2008. That campaign bombarded your inbox for donations.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by jessaustin on Friday September 20, 2019 @09:19PM (#21032850)
Same here, and I last donated to Bernie like three years ago. This time I'm giving to Tulsi, who seems much less aggressive on this.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by thephyber on Saturday September 21, 2019 @09:41PM (#21039097)
To state the obvious, Bernie raises 10x what Tulsi does[1]. It's probably partly in how the campaign harvests new pledges from prior pledgers (even if it's aggressive).

I'm under no allusions that she has the same name recognition that he has.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/07/16/us/politics/d...

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by jessaustin on Wednesday September 25, 2019 @05:06PM (#21075473)
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by thomk on Friday September 20, 2019 @09:40PM (#21032938)
I had a similar experience and finally just asked them to stop texting me and take me off their list, which they did.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by smnrchrds on Friday September 20, 2019 @09:29PM (#21032891)
It may be a chicken and egg problem but I think in this case the low donations came before the hounding. Political entities hound donors because people do not donate enough, so they have to try too hard to get the funds they need. If they stopped doing that tomorrow and announcing it so everyone knows and acts upon this new information, I expect total donations to go down significantly, not up. Perhaps I am wrong, but I think no entity puts more effort into a goal than necessary. If it were possible to get more donations by doing less, it would have been done already.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by cortesoft on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:22PM (#21033098)
How much is 'enough'?
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by ianai on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:41PM (#21033347)
Literally as much as the Koch family and other, competing interests for political donations. “Enough“ is going to vary by charity or company though. I fear animal shelters literally never have enough as there are just so many homeless domesticated animals.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by thephyber on Saturday September 21, 2019 @09:53PM (#21039142)
> I fear animal shelters literally never have enough as there are just so many homeless domesticated animals.

That problem could be solved far more easily if all Americans were more responsible with researching what it takes to safely raise a pet and what responsibilities you have if you think you can't.

Similarly, if American voters were far more responsible with how often they voted, researching their {candidates/parties/platforms/issues}, and what they let their representatives do in their name, lots of these political issues would cease to exist (without a giant increase in spending or refactor in how campaigns can spend).

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by oriel on Sunday September 22, 2019 @02:18PM (#21042925)
For an interview take-home I was asked to slice and dice a voter donation database to find analytics ranging from simple top lists to counts/lists of people who were most likely to donate again (following a given formula). Many of those potential recurring donors were people like this, who had given once and whose other (publicly available) political metrics indicated they were a strong match for donating again if matched.

I'm registered independent, but donated to my first political candidate (ever) recently, and experienced this same hounding, to the point that I ended up blocking/banning/giving fake info just to keep them off my notification screen every day. I figure these people dont even bother filtering like the work I did above, as I had never once received solicitation for donation before. Now I'm bracing for the inevitable deluge of similar hounding from other candidates in coming years.

I dont give my real address, i use email labels for filtering and have leaf accounts in a forwarding network of emails specifically for crap like this.

I can only wonder how its going to work if the current political campaign "best practices" alienate a large slice of voters just because the current most-active slice is susceptible to that kind of manipulation.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by fnord77 on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:44PM (#21033164)
Nope. Seems common, at least anecdotally. I donated to Planned Parenthood once.

I estimate the time and materials they have spend since then to extract more money from me exceeds my original $50 contribution.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by technofiend on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:09PM (#21033241)
A previous employer decided to get 100% of employees donating to United Way. They hounded everyone and even gave bonus checks to top executives who otherwise refused to donate. Just to tick the box I donated the absolute minimum which I think was fifty cents a paycheck. I figured their administrative overhead was high enough that was a net loss or nearly so.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by hdfbdtbcdg on Saturday September 21, 2019 @05:16AM (#21034305)
How does an employer have the right to do something like that?
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by citiguy on Saturday September 21, 2019 @08:48AM (#21035031)
I don't know and it always makes me angry, but I have had this happen to me too. I guess its good publicity for them.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by cornstalks on Saturday September 21, 2019 @12:01AM (#21033417)
Same experience for me, but mine was for donating blood, not money to politics. After a few years of repeatedly saying no they finally backed off and left me alone, but I haven’t donated since. I don’t want to be hunted down like that. It’s a shame, really. If I could donate and be guaranteed to never be contacted I totally would.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by greggman2 on Saturday September 21, 2019 @12:36AM (#21033544)
I donate to the EFF and the ACLU and they haven't spammed me not sold my name AFAICT nor do they spam me too much.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by mikeash on Saturday September 21, 2019 @01:02AM (#21033615)
I donated to the ACLU a couple of years ago. They’ve since spent the entire amount mailing me solicitations for more. Their latest one was this really obnoxious envelope with FINAL NOTICE written on it. I like their mission but fuck everything about their solicitation techniques.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by prepend on Saturday September 21, 2019 @05:56AM (#21034415)
I like to use tracer email addresses. I gave them [email protected] and it’s easy to see when they sell my email address as I’ve only ever used that email address with them.

When I’m bored one day I’ll try to do a genealogy of how these addresses spread from sale to sale. But I don’t think I keep enough spam to get a cool picture.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by nullc on Saturday September 21, 2019 @03:07AM (#21033956)
Likewise, bad experiences with the ACLU. ... including fundraising messages that I found offensive (and obviously entirely off message for what I understood the ACLU to stand for).
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by bonniemuffin on Saturday September 21, 2019 @01:35AM (#21033695)
ACLU is the worst!! I gave them money years ago and they still send me FINAL NOTICE mailers constantly.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by tempestn on Saturday September 21, 2019 @02:12AM (#21033801)
Perhaps things are different in Canada, but I've donated both to political parties and to multiple charities for various causes, and I've never been 'hounded' as I would describe it. I've received mail, but any time I've asked to be removed from their mailing list, that's the end.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by prepend on Saturday September 21, 2019 @05:19AM (#21034312)
Many years ago when I thought this was funny, I had a friend who would donate $10 in cash to Focus on the Family, Southern Poverty Law Center, DNC, RNC. For $40 they would get a deluge of mailers, calls, even visits. My friend feels bad to this day because the spam continues 30 years later.

I had this done to me many addresses ago and it’s bizarre how many mailers say something like “donate now so we can raise more donations because of terrible thing C”

I think the issue not covered in the nice article is that it’s not just coordination it’s competence. I think the reason why smart people don’t donate is that there’s not something to buy. If you have almond industry level funds to a cause it would like just result in a bunch of marathons and commercials. Smaller amounts, well placed seem much more effective.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by benj111 on Saturday September 21, 2019 @04:13AM (#21034124)
"My mother donated once to some Democratic volunteer who came to her door"

I don't get why this is normalised. If fraudsters aren't doing this I'd be amazed. How hard is it to mock up an ID badge, get a clip board and start taking 'donations'.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by zhte415 on Friday September 20, 2019 @09:06PM (#21032808)
The same for alumni donations for my former university. Donate even a small amount once and they'll ramp up future requests by an order of magnitude (a Global 50 university, Top 10 by some rankings, not short of cash).
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by Legogris on Saturday September 21, 2019 @07:12AM (#21034623)
Yeah. I feel like my modest one-time donations to Oxfam and cancer foundations have already been matched by all the mail they've sent me over the years since. Makes me less likely to donate again.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by tempguy9999 on Saturday September 21, 2019 @12:52PM (#21036407)
I guess you did nothing about it, so they will continue.

I donated once to a charity via a text message, they phoned me back (told me it was a thank you call but obviously they wanted more), I told them never to call me again. That worked.

I'm on oxfam's list, I just asked them in-store to never send me any more crud, they got that put on the system, never got anything more again.

If there is a problem, fix it, don't hope it goes away.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by TallGuyShort on Friday September 20, 2019 @09:35PM (#21032917)
I don't think that's unusually bad. I'm especially annoyed once they seem to have spent more than I gave them just on postage to me. I don't understand it.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by shameshame on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:34PM (#21032669)
I have experienced similar with charity giving and donating to my alma mater. It was shocking.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by nessunodoro on Saturday September 21, 2019 @01:07AM (#21033626)
i'm not sure if gmail is evil but it does filter most of these to a secondary inbox for me. such little gratitudes add up to me staying on the platform.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by onetimemanytime on Saturday September 21, 2019 @02:37AM (#21033874)
happened to me: either ACLU, EFF or both sold my name to a gazillion left-leaning causes. Stopped donating to both them of course.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by seibelj on Friday September 20, 2019 @08:58PM (#21032773)
The other sad thing about charities is they take so much money in overhead. Plus the wealthy use it as a vehicle for tax avoidance - would you rather pay $500k in taxes or have your brother in law make a Save the Children charity and give it to him? Then the tax is written off and your brother in law gets a salary, plus his charity can spend the rest on socialite parties I mean fundraisers.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by laughinghan on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:16PM (#21033076)
Penalizing overhead is actually a huge source of dysfunction at non-profits:

The problem is, those overhead tasks don’t disappear just because you don’t spend money on them. Someone has to monitor the accounts, find new donors, calculate taxes, organize the holiday party. Centralizing these tasks in dedicated departments, hiring specialists, getting good at them, that would have looked like bureaucracy. So instead, we spun them out to the entire staff ... No one had any expertise in writing grant proposals, conducting impact assessments, or managing high-maintenance funders like the European Commission—training courses would have counted as overhead spending.

https://newrepublic.com/article/120178/problem-international...

Overhead is only inefficient if the charity isn't getting results. And charities that have low overhead but still don't get results are by definition still inefficient. Don't worry about overhead, focus on results.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by ip26 on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:21PM (#21033093)
I understand your argument but struggle to accept a charity where $0.80 on the dollar of my donation goes to fundraising.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by laughinghan on Friday September 20, 2019 @10:34PM (#21033140)
I think we're talking past each other. I'm saying that trying to measure overhead as a way to evaluate charities creates perverse incentives to try to reduce reported overhead, without truly reducing overhead. In order to be effective, charities of course still have to have low true overhead and actually spend money on their work.

Although in principle, if a charity were to spend 80% of its budget on fundraising, but per-dollar donated that charity gets the best results for saving children from dying of malaria or whatever, you really would refuse to donate to it?

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by ip26 on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:04PM (#21033220)
Of course not, but the reason we look at these metrics in the first place is because we can't usually say with certainty that Charity A is head-and-shoulders the best charity for saving children from malaria. We're trying to sift through the pile to find the charity that will do the most with our dollar.
Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by laughinghan on Friday September 20, 2019 @11:15PM (#21033256)
Sure, but I'm saying something more specific than just "head-and-shoulders the best". I'm saying we should entirely ignore overhead and in fact pretty much ignore what the charity itself does at all (how much of your donation goes to fundraising? How much goes to lavish hotels?), and just look at the actual malaria rate in the children they treat.

I highly recommend reading the New Republic article I linked to, it talks about all this in a lot more detail.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by prepend on Saturday September 21, 2019 @06:00AM (#21034426)
For me, it’s difficult to determine what overhead is good (reasonable accountant) vs bad (paying their spouse’s consulting firm to do accounting).

So it’s easier for me to just filter by low absolute and relative overhead than try to figure out if they are paying too much for their paper or overpaying for motor pool and stuff like that.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by laughinghan on Saturday September 21, 2019 @04:06PM (#21037613)
> it’s easier for me to just filter by low absolute and relative overhead

Don't. Don't even do that. Don't try to determine their overhead at all. Just look at results, like the rate of malaria in children in the region.

Better to donate to a charity that stays in lavish hotels, parties all the time, and reduces the malaria rate by 20%, than a charity with no overhead, works super hard, pays their staff little, spends 95% of their budget on treatment, and still only reduces the malaria rate by 5%.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by prepend on Saturday September 21, 2019 @04:51PM (#21037861)
These aren’t exclusive options.

I’d rather donate to a charity that both has low overhead and reduces the malaria rate by 20%.

It’s not a good assumption to think that because a charity pays lavish salaries and stays in fancy hotels that it is somehow more effective.

I know our examples are made up but it’s pretty much impossible to tell if a single charity reduces the malaria rate. It’s pretty difficult in general to determine the impact of charities because unless you’re the Carter Foundation working on Guinea Worm there are lots of other factors and organizations contributing to a shared goal.

Re:Too Much Dark Money in Almonds by laughinghan on Monday September 23, 2019 @04:29PM (#21053234)
It’s not a good assumption to think that because a charity pays lavish salaries and stays in fancy hotels that it is somehow more effective.

You're 100% right!

We should assume no such thing. We should measure whether it's more effective and reward that. Measuring and rewarding anything else creates perverse incentives, such as:

I’d rather donate to a charity that both has low overhead and reduces the malaria rate by 20%.

Really? If two charities deliver the same results, where one pays its staff minimally and spends the vast majority of its money on its treatment program, and the other pays and treats its staff well (lavishly, even) and spends less money on a more cost-effective treatment program, yielding the same ultimate results, then I'd say the former enriches more lives and deserves my money more.

When people say "no good deed goes unpunished", that's a joke because that's obviously not how we want the world to work. The world we want is one where bad deeds are punished and good deeds are rewarded.

We should prefer to donate to a charity that is as effective as alternatives but pays and treats its workers better, because the people who make those missions succeed deserve to be rewarded, not punished.

it’s pretty much impossible to tell if a single charity reduces the malaria rate ... there are lots of other factors and organizations contributing to a shared goal

That's why the article I linked to advocates randomized controlled trials, among other ideas.