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Re:Solar and Wind Power So Cheap They’re Outgrowing Subsidies by CalRobert on Thursday September 19, 2019 @11:58AM (#21017435)
But the best way to make mass transit better is often to give it exclusive use of space (aka bus lanes) and drivers moan endlessly when that happens.
Re:Solar and Wind Power So Cheap They’re Outgrowing Subsidies by AnthonyMouse on Thursday September 19, 2019 @12:25PM (#21017754)
That's because you're taking away space (i.e. making driving worse) in a way which is incredibly inefficient. You have an entire lane dedicated to a bus that only travels in it a dozen times a day.

It also has failure built into the mechanism, because it only "works" by making the bus lane better relative to driving, which is only effective when there is heavy congestion in the car lanes. Which means it's impossible for it to relieve that congestion or else it would lose its effectiveness. Methods that require failure and inefficiency in order to operate are inherently ridiculous.

The best way to make mass transit better is to build taller buildings. Then you can run more trains and buses while still having them full, which means they arrive more frequently and you waste less time waiting for them, which means more people willingly choose to use them over driving.

The second best way (which is complementary) is to not charge mass transit fares. Then more people use it because it's cheaper, which again justifies more frequent service and reduces the inconvenience. Yet you're not making driving worse, you're making it better by allowing more people to willingly choose mass transit rather than being pressured into it with penalties, which reduces congestion for cars. You also save a huge pile of money for not needing a fare collection infrastructure, and improve privacy because it's all too common for transit payment systems to be coupled to movement tracking infrastructure (which you also then don't have to pay for either).

Re:Solar and Wind Power So Cheap They’re Outgrowing Subsidies by darksaints on Thursday September 19, 2019 @01:04PM (#21018197)
> That's because you're taking away space (i.e. making driving worse) in a way which is incredibly inefficient. You have an entire lane dedicated to a bus that only travels in it a dozen times a day.

It's more efficient, not less. Bus lanes don't get built for buses that only have 12 trips a day. They're typically for places that have 10 minute frequencies or better. At 10 minute frequencies, with standard 40 foot buses, the lane capacity is about equal. With 2 minute frequencies, a single bus lane has a capacity about four regular lanes.

Under peak loads, during rush hour, that lane is worth every second of inconvenience to drivers. If they would rather have an extra lane and 3,000 additional drivers on the road, they'll regret it.

Re:Solar and Wind Power So Cheap They’re Outgrowing Subsidies by AnthonyMouse on Sunday September 22, 2019 @01:11AM (#21039784)
> At 10 minute frequencies, with standard 40 foot buses, the lane capacity is about equal.

At 10 minute intervals at 40 MPH, you have 35200 feet -- more than six miles -- of empty lane between each bus. At a 15 foot car length and one car length between each car, you could fit more than a thousand cars in that lane instead of that one bus.

Even if every car has only one occupant and not one of the bus passengers are people who would have taken the bus if not for the bus lane, buses don't carry more than a thousand people, so you've reduced the carrying capacity of the road.

Using two minute intervals would still be consuming space that could fit hundreds of cars, so to be worthwhile you would have to have very large buses, they would have to be entirely full on every trip, and every passenger would have to displace a whole car, which is implausible because some people would have taken the bus either way and some cars would have had more than one occupant.

Moreover, if you would fill a bus every two minutes then you have enough density to justify operating a subway, in which case you still don't have a bus lane.