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Re:G.M. Strike: 50k Union Workers Walk Out Over Wages and Id... by Aloha on Monday September 16, 2019 @10:37AM (#20984474)
That seems more of a technicality than a practicality - GM workers in 2007 got a paycheck with the GM mark on them - in 2019, they also get a paycheck with the GM mark on them - the fact that the actual legal entity changes, matters for shit. Also the fact that GM considers itself the same GM that existed also somewhat dilutes this idea.
Re:G.M. Strike: 50k Union Workers Walk Out Over Wages and Id... by jasode on Monday September 16, 2019 @11:25AM (#20984994)
>That seems more of a technicality than a practicality [...] the fact that the actual legal entity changes, matters for shit.

If I can go a meta layer above this subthread and explain the 2 different conversations happening:

- the gp (maxerickson) comment was responding to "2008 GM nearly went under", and it's correct (not technicality) that the old_company (with its own assets-liabilities) did go under. Not "nearly", but completely went under. A new_company was created as different legal entity with a clean slate to pick and choose assets-liabilities.[1]

- the other replies (Aloha, wil421) are more philosphical "Ship of Theseus"[2] type of arguments

All 3 (maxerickson, Aloha, wil421) can simultaneously be right because they are all emphasizing different aspects of what "General Motors" means. It can be either "GM the assets&liabilities" or "GM the brand, the public perception".

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/11/business/11primer.html

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

Re:G.M. Strike: 50k Union Workers Walk Out Over Wages and Id... by Aloha on Monday September 16, 2019 @01:19PM (#20986361)
Yes, I was indeed making a 'Ship of Theseus' argument - specifically, GM's obligations to its current and some obligations to former employees was not extinguished by the bankruptcy.

I was also arguing that the bankruptcy was immaterial to GM's moral obligation to 'share the wealth' when times are good.

Re:G.M. Strike: 50k Union Workers Walk Out Over Wages and Id... by maxerickson on Monday September 16, 2019 @10:51AM (#20984621)
The government dissolved the old company and gave the union a significant chunk of ownership in the new company.

It's sort of a technicality, but it's an important one.

Re:G.M. Strike: 50k Union Workers Walk Out Over Wages and Id... by wil421 on Monday September 16, 2019 @11:04AM (#20984770)
It’s the same company if the same executives, managers, salaried and union employees are still there.

Did they rehire everyone and start their plants from scratch when the legal entity changed?

Re:G.M. Strike: 50k Union Workers Walk Out Over Wages and Id... by maxerickson on Monday September 16, 2019 @11:10AM (#20984835)
You can read about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_Chapter_11_reor...

The new company had ~23,000 less people (I think many of those jobs were sold to other companies).

Re:G.M. Strike: 50k Union Workers Walk Out Over Wages and Id... by coliveira on Monday September 16, 2019 @11:25AM (#20984991)
Just because a company reduced its workforce it doesn't mean it is a different one.
Re:G.M. Strike: 50k Union Workers Walk Out Over Wages and Id... by chrischen on Monday September 16, 2019 @12:29PM (#20985751)
I'd say it's the same company if the same stock holders exist.
Re:G.M. Strike: 50k Union Workers Walk Out Over Wages and Id... by bpodgursky on Monday September 16, 2019 @11:14AM (#20984881)
Equity in the old GM got wiped out. It's more than a practicality for you if you held shares in the old company -- or your retirement fund held shares.
Re:G.M. Strike: 50k Union Workers Walk Out Over Wages and Id... by coliveira on Monday September 16, 2019 @11:26AM (#20985003)
Shareholders come and go. This makes little difference for the company.
Re:G.M. Strike: 50k Union Workers Walk Out Over Wages and Id... by bpodgursky on Monday September 16, 2019 @12:27PM (#20985734)
This is like calling a heart transplant an everyday affair. It's deeply incorrect.

Corporate reorganizations under bankrupcy law do happen, but they are rare, newsworthy, and very disruptive to workers (at a minimum, their pension and health benefits are renegotiated). Shareholders being wiped out is not normal, and retirement funds -- or really, the stock market at all -- would not work if it was.