News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by colechristensen on Sunday September 15, 2019 @09:25PM (#20980449)
Telemetry is fine when it is included with enterprise software with licensing agreements handled by lawyers and corporate security. Telemetry is actually helpful and a good thing in that use case.

It is not in consumer products, period. Unless you are paying me for this information (in actual money, not discounts, not services) telemetry should be banned.

Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by tomp on Monday September 16, 2019 @02:49AM (#20981641)
Iftelemetry were so valuable (“data is the new oil”) the would/should pay us for it.

Like all those “We value your opinion” customer feedback surveys. Yeah, you value it at $0.

Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by klingonopera on Monday September 16, 2019 @07:53AM (#20983142)
I absolutely disagree with these data collecting practices, but if your data is e.g. worth $5, that may have been already deducted in the printer's sale price.

If you have two feature-equal printers, but one doing data-collecting and $5 cheaper than the other, which one do you think will be sold out first?

I wish that manufacturers be forced to also show default/required data requirements on their products similar to how they already display minimum/recommended hardware requirements. This would at least increase consumer awareness of the issue, at best maybe abolish it entirely...

Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by colechristensen on Monday September 16, 2019 @05:50PM (#20988919)
Printer hardware is usually sold at a loss or near a loss in order to focus profits on ink/toner sales. That's how you get the ridiculous DRM on ink.

Force manufacturers to allow third party ink and to disclose data collection and you get a much different, better for the consumer, printer market.

Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by JohnFen on Monday September 16, 2019 @02:04PM (#20986861)
I don't want to be paid for it. I just want it to not happen.
Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by jacquesm on Monday September 16, 2019 @01:02AM (#20981220)
Only when fully disclosed and blockable.
Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by justinclift on Sunday September 15, 2019 @10:24PM (#20980646)
> ... with licensing agreements handled by lawyers and corporate security.

So it's helpful when it's someone else's problem?

Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by colechristensen on Sunday September 15, 2019 @10:31PM (#20980668)
It is helpful when the company doing the telemetry really values you as a customer and you have teams of people responsible for understanding and negotiating the details.

It is not helpful when the absence of competition forces you to accept one devil or another and little power (or time) to understand how your information is being gathered and used.

Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by protomyth on Sunday September 15, 2019 @11:14PM (#20980818)
It's helpful when the iSeries calls IBM to get someone out for part replacement. Both parties know the whole deal since there is an actual contract with specifics. Consumers don't have 'contract support' unless they have cash.
Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by mrep on Sunday September 15, 2019 @11:37PM (#20980895)
> Consumers don't have 'contract support' unless they have cash.

So what do you propose then? Every website have a paywall and block poor people?

Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by colechristensen on Monday September 16, 2019 @12:37AM (#20981124)
Plenty of people are happy to share information on the Internet and even to pay small sums of money to do so.

If you aren't interested in sharing information without selling visitors data, your service isn't viable without charge, or nobody is willing to pay you, everybody is probably better off without what you're trying to offer.

Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by hakfoo on Monday September 16, 2019 @12:30AM (#20981092)
This isn't a website, it's a printer. We're already paying customers. If there was a paywall, we passed through it when we went to the store and dropped $100 on their product.

I suppose the big problem is that everyone gets into the data broker business when they get big enough these days. It fundamentally changes the expectations of your relationship with the company.

It's a lot like the Vizio/Samsung/etc Smart TV privacy fiasco. Back when you bought a $699 21" Zenith tube television, their business model was transparently "we make and sell televisions." The up-front cost was sufficient that they weren't too concerned with a trickle lifetime recurring revenue. There's no real place in that business model to focus on a data gathering side hustle, and you as a consumer had no reason to think they'd be interested that you kept the knob on UHF all night.

Similarly, if HP's business model is legitimately selling printers and printer accessories, there's very little information they need but are not getting from their existing "what retailers order for restock" and "direct sales and ink-as-a-service" channels. Even the obnoxious personalized 'you print lots of photos, buy our photo paper' ad doesn't require remote data submission; you could calculate it on the fly locally and pop up a banner, just like with 'you've printed 29 pages, time for a new cartridge!" I could see system and document info for crash log purposes, but even that's a one-time permission request you can make on demand.

I guess what's amazing is how much the tail has come to wag the dog-- they'd rather creep out people and run the risk people finding out losing the $100-plus-years-of-expensive-consumable sale in order to get that sweet sweet consumer-profile data worth a few dozen cents per-user in quantity.

Honestly, I want to replace my arthritic LaserJet 5 with something offering duplexing and more than four real-world pages per minute, but new printers seem to be doing everything they can to be a distasteful purchase instead of an exciting one.

Re:HP printers try to send data back to HP about your device... by ende on Sunday September 15, 2019 @11:38PM (#20980901)
Corporations with professional legal counsel have more power than individual consumers.