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Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by bko on Saturday September 14, 2019 @02:55PM (#20972930)
Which is one reason why capital controls are so destructive. Allowing denizens to keep their savings in whatever form they so choose is a human right. Libra will afford people the option to invest in and use a token that is backed 1 for 1 to a basket of global currencies and government bonds at a low cost.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by gzer0 on Saturday September 14, 2019 @03:05PM (#20972981)
The liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism—ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by ClumsyPilot on Saturday September 14, 2019 @09:15PM (#20974947)
You could argue democracy is in danger for small countries.

Large multinationals have more power than those governments. It does not matter how their electorate votes.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by Can_Not on Sunday September 15, 2019 @10:40AM (#20977396)
There is already examples of large multinationals (including Amazon) bullying and overriding democratic municipalities in the US.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by simplecomplex on Saturday September 14, 2019 @06:27PM (#20974251)
Preventing people from preserving their wealth and the fruits of their labor is not liberty. It’s a restriction of liberty.

Capital controls have historically been associated with despotic governments.

Why shouldn’t I be able to put my wealth where I want ?

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by ClumsyPilot on Saturday September 14, 2019 @09:17PM (#20974960)
Can I invest in Cocaine or LSD? What about enriched uranium?
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by wnkrshm on Sunday September 15, 2019 @04:43AM (#20976225)
Organs are good investments these days.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by azernik on Saturday September 14, 2019 @07:32PM (#20974538)
They've also been associated with places like Finland, Israel, France, and the UK. Capital controls are just a necessary enforcement mechanism for attempts to control the exchange rate of a currency.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by bko on Saturday September 14, 2019 @03:09PM (#20973013)
Giving people an option to invest in a basket of relatively safe investments and currencies is growth of private power that will lead to fascism?
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by oblio on Saturday September 14, 2019 @03:17PM (#20973079)
You're assuming those people are not forced, tricked or otherwise persuaded by a company worth hundreds of billions of dollars, to use Libra. And that company has every incentive to do what I listed above. It also has very shady morals, as proven repeatedly.

Yes, it's a small individual loss (not being to invest in Libra) but probably a big collective gain.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by bko on Saturday September 14, 2019 @03:27PM (#20973142)
> You're assuming those people are not forced, tricked or otherwise persuaded by a company worth hundreds of billions of dollars, to use Libra

Anybody who creates a product tries to persuade people to use their product. You can be a cynic and just attribute ill intent of basically everything but it's not really productive

Facebook doesn't control Libra. They have a non-controlling stake in the Libra Foundation, a non-profit.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by JAlexoid on Saturday September 14, 2019 @03:47PM (#20973254)
Facebook has the power of market to force you to use Libra. Just like Apple had the power to introduce NFC payment terminals in US.

That's fundamentally anti free market.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by erikpukinskis on Sunday September 15, 2019 @12:32PM (#20977995)
It’s interesting because I agree with you and those are good examples, but there seems to be a contradiction here.

What you’re advocating for is a market with very clear boundaries, where everyone has equal access to the market but no one is allowed to do the things outside the market.

So it’s a “free market” in that no one has special powers. But it doesn’t make my American “freedom hairs” tingle because there’s a ton of stuff the government is telling you not to do.

I won’t make any argument as to which kind of freedom is more important in this case. But I do want to suggest that the more stuff you put in the “not allowed because the market can’t be administered fairly” bucket, the more of your GDP you cede to criminal organizations.

Because once it’s illegal, that’s just a big monopoly you handed to organized crime. And yes, organized crime does exist in Europe, and does control money supply.

So you have to be careful, there’s a devil’s bargain in both directions.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by K0SM0S on Sunday September 15, 2019 @11:54AM (#20977769)
Minor technical remarks:

1. Since when is a currency a "product"? Did I miss a macroeconomics memo? — This statement is antithetic to the structure of modern economies, or to Facebook's claims about Libra for that matter.

2. As for cynicism, if you look at Facebook's history and mindset, their decisions and policy... I feel like "cynicism" qualifies as an appropriate response. — for reference: an inclination to believe that people are motivated purely by self-interest; skepticism.

Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by raverbashing on Saturday September 14, 2019 @03:10PM (#20973020)
You can do that without Libra, just buy the equivalent basket, you're even getting real assets instead of something like tether
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by Legogris on Saturday September 14, 2019 @03:50PM (#20973265)
If this was purely launched as an investment vehicle that people could put their savings in, I am not certain that the regulatory response would be the same. This is a mischaracterization of what Libra even intends to be. It's marketed as a new financial system if you read their whitepaper.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by qtplatypus on Monday September 16, 2019 @01:58AM (#20981461)
However its never been the case that people are allowed to keep their savings in whatever form they wish. I'm not permitted to for example save all my money in a ponzi scheme or invest it in a futures contract backed by the afghan opium crop.
Re:France and Germany Agree to Block Facebook's Libra by insulanus on Saturday September 14, 2019 @11:54PM (#20975491)
> Libra will afford people the option to invest in and use a token that is backed 1 for 1 to a basket of global currencies and government bonds at a low cost.

That part sounds good to me - tying together the international money and trade system has reduced the threat of war.

But that argument doesn't imply the need for a foreign (or domestic) corporation to administrate your currency.