News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by cryptoz on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:10PM (#20946175)
Can you explain what you mean? I don't follow. Rent control is a bandaid that provides a level of stability to the lower classes. They can live without daily anxiety of being rudely defacto 'evicted' by radical, surprise rent increases.

This enables a society to continue to grow and function at a somewhat more sustainable pace, letting cities and counties grow without intense boom-bust and crash cycles, with a more stable working class, and therefore a long-term sustainable housing construction market.

I understand that rent control is no grand solution, and that we need more houses built - but I do not understand how rent control is part of the problem.

The problem starts and ends with personal and corporate greed. The rent control is an attempt at constructing a sustainable, stable society from the ashes of an out-of-control capitalism that is leaving most of its consumers in the dust.

Rent control is not part of the problem and would not deter rational actors from building additional housing - I believe it would increase it.

Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by ProfessorLayton on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:47PM (#20946413)
Rent control does indeed make the housing shortage worse in the following ways:

- It makes it so new renters subsidize the old ones, raising prices for newly vacant places, defeating the purpose of controlling costs. It also doesn't offer tons of protection from boom/bust cycles, as mainly those riding the boom will be able to afford absurd prices in highly regulated places like SF — Where a 1br can fetch 3.7k/mo (!!)

- "FU, got mine" attitude disengages renters from organizing the same way NIMBY homeowners do. For example, SF renters could easily outnumber homeowners to allow much more housing to be built, but ~70% of housing stock there falls under rent control.

I do want to be clear that I fully support controlling costs in some manner, however, this desperately needs to be tied to a solution that results in more housing.

Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by phil248 on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @09:20PM (#20946686)
Luckily for all of us, this law will not create a new class of rent control prisoners/devotees because the allowable increases are too high.
Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by pitaj on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:29PM (#20946294)
Rent doesn't get changed daily, only when a lease is up for renewal.

Rent control deters the creation of new housing. This reduce in supply raises the price, which is bad for the poor - exactly the people it is meant to help.

Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by cryptoz on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:34PM (#20946322)
I was under the impression that some rents can be increased during the lease. I do not think it is only a renewal event, by law.

> Rent control deters the creation of new housing.

I keep seeing this repeated but I don't understand. Why does rent control deter creation of new housing?

> This reduce in supply raises the price

But you've glossed over why supply is reduced. I don't see any reason that supply would be reduced with basic moderate rent control like this one.

Edit: I have tripped some wire (?) and am not allowed to post any more. In response to the comment below,

> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...

That seems to be Washington, not California. According to http://www.hrc-la.org/doc.asp?id=36 it seems to read that some leases allow rent increases mid-lease.

Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by Litmus2336 on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:49PM (#20946427)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/...

I believe you might be thinking of month-to-month, which is not a traditional lease. On all fixed term leases over a month rent cannot be changed during the term of the lease.

Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by phil248 on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @09:22PM (#20946693)
Which is an oddly elaborate way of saying that rent increases in California can happen annually.
Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by Litmus2336 on Thursday September 12, 2019 @02:03AM (#20948475)
Technically, you can have a lease of any length. I've seen 3 and 6 month leases. I'm sure it's possible to have a 24+ month lease.
Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by aianus on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @10:53PM (#20947403)
> Why does rent control deter creation of new housing?

If you have a lot of money and you want to build/buy a rental property, would you do it in a) a growing city with no rent control where your discounted future cash flows are unbounded or b) a city where there is a law placing a ceiling on your returns.

All else being equal, you are going to choose the city without rent control to build your new housing units in (or invest in something other than real estate altogether), thus illustrating how rent control disincentives new investment in housing, and specifically low-income rental housing.

Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by 0xB31B1B on Thursday September 12, 2019 @02:17AM (#20948554)
The problem is that this is well a well studied problem and your first principles approach to it gives us the wrong results. Rent control policies like this one (only works on buildings 15 years old or older) do not impact new housing starts.
Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by cryptoz on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @11:28PM (#20947644)
I think your illustration has failed, though, because I would very much choose b). I consider a) as an evil in the world and would avoid participating in that if at all possible. b) sounds like a really good choice for long-term investment in in sustainable society.

> All else being equal

Okay but all else is not equal, and in the real world, it is never equal. These thought experiments do nothing to improve conditions in the real world, since they are based on flawed models of how people behave.

Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by aianus on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @11:35PM (#20947680)
> Okay but all else is not equal, and in the real world, it is never equal. These thought experiments do nothing to improve conditions in the real world, since they are based on flawed models of how people behave.

By that logic, nothing affects anything else and we should all give up trying to think or plan.

Re:California Approves Statewide Rent Control by cryptoz on Thursday September 12, 2019 @12:08AM (#20947866)
I don't agree. We know that people are not 'rational actors' that maximize personal profit at every turn, and we should not base our economics around that known false idea.

I think it is wise to produce better models with new information - not to ignore everything or to knowingly use false models. People do not - and should not - act according to those 'rational' ideas of maximum profit.