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Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by mullingitover on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @03:27PM (#20943776)
> This is just my interpretation, but it seems like there is a sensible portion of detractors who simply want to derisk the experiment as much as possible by collecting more and more data.

This is so infuriating. Many people will die during this extended hemming and hawing.

Humans have driven countless important species to extinction with no thought, but we have to vacillate over a species that is responsible for more deaths than all the wars in human history combined?

My only reservation about driving the mosquitoes to extinction with a gene drive is that we can't guarantee that the mosquitoes will suffer.

Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by ses1984 on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @04:34PM (#20944383)
When we drove species to extinction before, it was accidental, and it's usually viewed as a huge mistake.

I wouldn't want to be one of the people who advocates for it, and then it turns out to be a giant disaster. The potential risk seems huge and could affect generations. Although I it would be pretty easy to hedge against that risk by keeping some mosquitos/eggs alive in a lab, and if the experiment goes wrong, re-populate the mosquitos.

From an economic perspective, how does the cost of all this research compare to mass producing malaria medicine?

Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by BurningFrog on Thursday September 12, 2019 @12:06AM (#20947861)
> and then it turns out to be a giant disaster

The purpose of this is to stop the current giant disaster of 1000+ people a day dying from malaria.

I can't help thinking that if this was affecting American middle class neighborhoods where environmentalists live, the mosquitos would be wiped out quicker than plastic straws.

Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by hubert1234 on Thursday September 12, 2019 @01:52AM (#20948431)
Dont be so sure, I personally believe that alligators and crocodiles should be wiped out but the majority believes that the risk of being eaten alive during a swim in a pond nextdoor is an acceptable risk and the natural right of nature over humans. People have a weird disposition to protect nature beyond what is due. We effectively wiped out wolves from Europe and I personally couldnt be happier that I dont have to worry about a wolf attack or bear attack when I'm out in the forest, cycling.
Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by saiya-jin on Thursday September 12, 2019 @08:12AM (#20950517)
Wolves wouldn't attack you, I guess you read one too many children's stories. The only possibility would be desperate, starving big pack of wolves and a lone traveler in the middle of nowhere. I've experienced it a bit, alone in winter mountains ski touring and camping, but even then they just carefully observe from distance and then move on.

As for bears, we have them back home in eastern europe, in fact vastly overpopulated given the area available and their territoriality. Practically no attacks on cyclists, hikers etc (yes like 1 every year or two something minor, more people die from ticks and tripping over stones and roots). If you make any noise while in the forest, they will notice you from far and avoid you.

That said, we don't have grizzly or polar bears, those are a bit different and majestic beasts.

As for general discussion, your point doesn't make much sense. We could wipe out just types of mosquitoes responsible for super-deadly diseases like malaria and dengue (and few others) and keep the annoying but otherwise harmless suckers still around. In my subjective opinion we wouldn't even notice the transition (at least not in the bad sense).

Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by nunb on Thursday September 12, 2019 @10:57AM (#20952191)
Still a threat in some parts of Europe... Including urban centers like Moscow.
Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by ses1984 on Thursday September 12, 2019 @08:01AM (#20950446)
I'm not suggesting that we don't address the giant disaster of millions dying from malaria. There is another solution right now: mass produce malaria drugs. How far down would that drive the death toll I wonder.
Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by BurningFrog on Thursday September 12, 2019 @11:15AM (#20952393)
I actually wonder that too.

My impression is that malaria was wiped out in the rich world by methods that we now deny to Africa, like DDT.

I also believe malaria is a human only disease, so if you cure all sick humans fast enough, the disease dies out, and you're left with mosquitos that only suck blood and are annoying.

I suspect the problem with malaria drugs is not producing them at a factory, but getting them reliably into all sick patients in places where there aren't even doctors or roads.

Anyway, you claim this is a real solution: Is anyone actually ready to do this for real? If not, it's not a real alternative to the gene drive.

Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by mullingitover on Thursday September 12, 2019 @01:39PM (#20954153)
"There are over 200 species of malaria. Humans are infected by five. But birds, bats, lizards and antelopes are also hosts for malaria parasites." [1]

So no, unfortunately, curing all the humans will not wipe out malaria. The only real solution is to drive the mosquito vector to extinction, everything else is a temporary half-measure.

[1] https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/scienceshow/ma...

Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by sobani on Friday September 13, 2019 @04:14AM (#20960172)
In 1958 China wanted to eradicate 4 pests: the mosquitos responsible for malaria; the rodents that spread the plague; the pervasive airborne flies; and the sparrows which ate grain seed and fruit.

Guess what the result was: it exacerbated the Great Chinese Famine, in which 15–45 million people died of starvation. Because with no sparrows to eat the insects, locust populations ballooned, swarming the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign

Don't eradicate a species, before you're really sure it's not going to cause much larger problems.

Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by mullingitover on Friday September 13, 2019 @03:46PM (#20965706)
> "Scientists say research conducted so far indicates that the targeted mosquito, Anopheles gambiae, is not a "keystone" species – meaning its disappearance would not have a significant negative ecological effect." [1]

[1] https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2019/03/01/6987087...

Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by wolco on Thursday September 12, 2019 @01:22AM (#20948275)
What makes you think they won't come back as bad or worse then before? That's what we did with antibiotics and we ended up with superbugs.
Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by iamkroot on Thursday September 12, 2019 @02:05AM (#20948486)
There cannot be any doubt that the world is in a better place because of the presence of antibiotics.
Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by bzbz on Thursday September 12, 2019 @04:34AM (#20949292)
Why not? It’s not as if you have an omniscient point of view and the ability to see the future of both branches. There will always be doubt about complex, unsolvable scenarios.
Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by TheGallopedHigh on Thursday September 12, 2019 @05:38AM (#20949652)
I think we can safely say the trade off of having antibiotics and a few superbugs, as opposed to no antibiotics where all bugs are superbugs was a good trade off.
Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by stjohnswarts on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @11:31PM (#20947661)
yep, the mosquitoes serve no discernible value in the population, I saw go ahead and eradicate them.
Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by dctoedt on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @03:49PM (#20943944)
Wanting any creature to suffer seems ... problematic.

That goes for wanting humans to suffer too: even the most "evil" among us are doing the best they know how, for some value of "best" that their brains arrive at as a result of the genetic lottery and the "programming" that they've had as a result of their lifetime of experiences. That certainly doesn't mean that we shouldn't vigorously oppose some of the things that such folks try to do. But at least an effort at compassion should be the default response. (As a certain Middle Eastern sage is reputed to have said circa 2,000 years ago: Love your enemies.)

Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by mullingitover on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @04:07PM (#20944114)
I was being facetious, just wanted to emphasize how little I care about the well-being of the mosquitoes given the horrific suffering and death they have caused.
Re:Malaria breakthrough as scientists find ‘highly effective... by RcouF1uZ4gsC on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @05:35PM (#20944995)
>As a certain Middle Eastern sage is reputed to have said circa 2,000 years ago: Love your enemies.

That Middle Eastern sage also reputed to have talked about those who would not listen to him being cast into outer darkness where there was weeping, and wailing, and gnashing of teeth, and the worm never dies, and the fire is never quenched.