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Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by Aaargh20318 on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:05AM (#20939058)
> I'd rather trust unecncrypted plaintext DNS queries that go to my ISP and government!

I trust my ISP and government more than a US company I have no formal contract with and the US government.

Also, there's the whole 'applications should not override system level settings' thing. My DHCP pushes a local (caching) DNS server that also does name resolution for internal services. This change would break that for all Firefox users on my network.

Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by roblabla on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:07AM (#20939080)
> I trust my ISP and government more than a US company I have no formal contract with and the US government.

And every single intermediary and whoever else might be listening in? This is an unencrypted plaintext connection. Which is the main point here. The whole "we trust ISP more" thing is completely beside the point. The point is DNS is horribly insecure nowadays, and it is about damn time we switch to something better.

> Also, there's the whole 'applications should not override system level settings' thing.

Hopefully, DoH will become a system level setting eventually.

Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by seszett on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:10AM (#20939113)
If you use your ISP's DNS servers, there is no intermediary between you and them.
Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by unethical_ban on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @04:51PM (#20944551)
If you use wi-fi without a VPN, you have the coffee shop and the coffee shop's ISP. And anyone listening there. Of course there is cleartext SNI even for SSL connections... but alas.
Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by Aaargh20318 on Thursday September 12, 2019 @05:28AM (#20949599)
What coffee shop ? I only connect to wifi at home and at the office.
Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by unethical_ban on Thursday September 12, 2019 @12:07PM (#20953110)
And you're the only person who uses mobile computing devices.
Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by Aaargh20318 on Thursday September 12, 2019 @02:06PM (#20954450)
Not sure what point you’re trying to make here.
Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by throw0101a on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @10:36AM (#20940626)
Unless your ISP is running Huawei equipment. ;)
Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by lima on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:10AM (#20939107)
There aren't many intermediaries if you use your ISP's internal resolvers.
Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by vetinari on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:23AM (#20939241)
And there are intermediaries between Cloudflare/other DoH providers and the respective authoritative nameservers anyway.
Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by ti_ranger on Thursday September 12, 2019 @08:30AM (#20950655)
My ISP is subject to specific regulations for licensed network providers, which Cloudflare isn't.

Thus, Cloudflare is the problematic intermediary.

Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by m-p-3 on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @09:30AM (#20939913)
But unless they have the private key for CloudFlare certs, they can't snoop in so it doesn't matter if there are intermediaries in between.
Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by vetinari on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @09:34AM (#20939965)
The traffic between Clouflare and the authoritative nameservers will be good old 53/udp.

The only thing the snooper won't be sure with is, which Cloudflare client asked for that record.

Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by dao- on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:08AM (#20939090)
> I trust my ISP and government more than a US company I have no formal contract with and the US government.

You're not affected then, because the DoH rollout w/ Cloudflare as the default is only planned for the US.

Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by telmich on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:44AM (#20939440)
That is not an argument, it is clear that this is supposed to be deployed by default.
Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by dao- on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @01:51PM (#20942832)
... only for users in the US. Are you aware of other plans?
Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by vezycash on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:26AM (#20939275)
For now
Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by bzbarsky on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @11:48PM (#20947746)
Do you ever use wifi in a coffeeshop or hotel?

Because if you do, at that point they are your "ISP" for purposes of this discussion. Do you still trust them more than Cloudflare?

(For a desktop machine, obviously this is not an issue, but for pretty much anyone with a laptop this is something that needs to be worried about.)

As far as internal services, is this a split-horizon setup? As far as I understand, the plan is to detect those and fall back from DoH to normal DNS as needed.

Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by m-p-3 on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @09:28AM (#20939887)
> applications should not override system level settings

I wish Windows 10 and other operating systems natively supported DNS-over-HTTPS, but many don't. So they have to work around that lack of support.

Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by kmlx on Thursday September 12, 2019 @04:57AM (#20949425)
> I trust my ISP and government more than a US company I have no formal contract with and the US government.

I do not! I'd rather have that anon US co. than any government.

Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by akerro on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @11:28AM (#20941171)
You can use different DoH server, you can setup your own, that's not a problem

https://www.ghacks.net/2018/04/02/configure-dns-over-https-i...

I use https://odvr.nic.cz/doh

Re:Turn off DoH, Firefox by miohtama on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @08:13AM (#20939140)
This is exactly why DoH is enabled by default in the US only.