Running GitHub on Rails 6.0

Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by Lordarminius on Monday September 09, 2019 @04:01PM (#20921841)

The main issue I see with these frameworks is that they cannot match Rails' support ecosystem. The framework has around for a really long while and rails developers have made - and documented - every error, kink and detour it is possible to make when writing code. I have often been pleasantly surprised to google an esoteric problem I imagined could only arise from my own unique brand of kludginess, and find that the community had encountered and solved same in the past. This is of massive value especially to new developers.

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by StreamBright on Monday September 09, 2019 @04:50PM (#20922334)

I am pretty sure. If you developing the next Basecamp these are essential. However, I rarely see Rails succeeding in other aspects of web development. I spent some time on trying to make Rails work for use cases that are not the perfect match for this ecosystem and failed. Yet, it is quite possible that there are millions on web applications out there, running on Rails happily. It is just not a great fit for things I do.

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by t0mbstone on Monday September 09, 2019 @05:33PM (#20922692)

And how, exactly, are you differentiating a "Basecamp-like" startup from a "non-Basecamp" startup?

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by hderms on Monday September 09, 2019 @10:02PM (#20924494)

Basecamp's problems seem particularly well suited to a batteries included CRUD framework. There are plenty of problems out there that aren't CRUD-centric

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by StreamBright on Tuesday September 10, 2019 @03:15AM (#20925803)

Exactly.

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by StreamBright on Tuesday September 10, 2019 @03:15AM (#20925802)

non-Basecamp startups:

- processing images

- providing API for warehouse fulfilment for online retailers (peak load is 100x of base load, latency goes out of the roof before Rails just crashes with OOM)

- real estate indexing with huge amount of data (we could not make the full text search work reliably with Rails)

These were pre 6.0 and I am pretty sure many things changed since, I am just saying it is easy to run into these situations. The bigger your framework the more assumptions are built in that are hard to come by. It is good for Basecamp startups not good for non-Basecamp startups.

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by t0mbstone on Tuesday September 10, 2019 @01:57PM (#20931134)

Image processing: Spin up sidekiq workers and do your image processing in parallel in background processes.

Providing API for warehouse fulfilment with peak load 100x greater than base: Run your Rails APP in any number of possible auto-scaling configurations.

Real Estate Full Text Indexing: Use ElasticSearch alongside Rails to provide highly performant full text indexing/searching

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by StreamBright on Wednesday September 11, 2019 @02:38AM (#20937185)

Are you suggesting that there is more to it than just Rails and an amazing ecosystem? I agree.

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by Lordarminius on Monday September 09, 2019 @05:13PM (#20922543)

I'd be interested in knowing what areas you found Rails lacking. Care to elaborate ?

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by malloryerik on Monday September 09, 2019 @11:53PM (#20924899)

I might be wrong but aren't real-time areas like WebSockets not really strong points in Rails? I do see that Action Cable appears to have improved, and I don't know at what point performance issues would get in the way, and I also probably don't know about some potential solutions. Should one choose Rails for an application with significant real-time / reactive functionality?

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by StreamBright on Tuesday September 10, 2019 @03:23AM (#20925847)

For me the most important one is performance and the lack of trust in my code (run time errors).

- https://blog.codinghorror.com/performance-is-a-feature/

- http://www.nicolas-hahn.com/python/go/rust/programming/2019/...

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by gls2ro on Tuesday September 10, 2019 @11:09AM (#20929028)

I totally agree that app performance is important.

But I really think there is a difference between framework/programming language performance and acceptance-level app performance.

It is possible to have a good performance app (Github, Shopify ) even if you don't believe that Ruby is good enough in this category.

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by AlchemistCamp on Tuesday September 10, 2019 @08:41AM (#20927516)

It depends on what you need. If you're building chat and want presence features so you can see who's online (and with how many and what type of devices), Elixir + Phoenix gives it to you out of the box.

I agree with your point about a sparser number of libraries, and sometimes that slows me down. That said, Elixir's ergonomics and documentation is fantastic.

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by philwelch on Monday September 09, 2019 @10:09PM (#20924515)

There’s kind of a middle ground where Rails is widely-used enough that it has this advantage over stuff like Elixir, but by the same token the Python, Java, and probably .Net ecosystems have the same advantage over Rails.

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by AlchemistCamp on Tuesday September 10, 2019 @08:48AM (#20927547)

The place where Ruby really wins is speed of development. Despite massive ecosystems and many libraries, Python, .Net and especially Java all lag Ruby in terms of how long it takes to build a web app.

I'd say part of the reason is expressiveness of the language (since it's very easy to make DSLs with Ruby and Rails benefits greatly from them), but another part is cultural. Python, .Net and especially Java communities tend to suffer (and benefit!) from a strong emphasis on correctness and purity over speed and developer experience.

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by philwelch on Tuesday September 10, 2019 @04:51PM (#20933575)

I'm not sure that Ruby is actually any faster or more expressive than Python. Having used both languages I consider them roughly equivalent.

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by AlchemistCamp on Friday September 13, 2019 @08:26AM (#20961446)

Can you write DSL like the Rails router DSL in Python?

If so, how much work is involved?

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Re:Running GitHub on Rails 6.0 by philwelch on Sunday September 15, 2019 @03:32AM (#20976056)

Having a cute API and leaving the parentheses out of your function calls isn't a DSL, it's just a cute API where you leave the parentheses off. I know Ruby people call them "DSLs" all the time, but they aren't.

Python doesn't have an idiomatic equivalent to block arguments, but you could probably write an equally usable routing API. It just wouldn't look as cute because there would still be parentheses.

What you end up doing in e.g. Flask is decorating your controlle method with the path that routes to it. Turbogears controllers serve routes based on class and method names without the extra wiring that Rails has. Django has a Rails-style "URLconf" (https://docs.djangoproject.com/en/2.2/topics/http/urls/) that actually seems a lot more intuitive and explicit to me.

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