Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 bits per second

Re:Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 b... by CAMLORN on Wednesday September 04, 2019 @09:58PM (#20883227)

And as a followup to that--because really this is the weird part--some circles of blind people (including mine) talk faster between ourselves. That's not common, but it happens. I still sometimes have to remember that other people can't digest technical content at the rate I say it and remember to slow down. A good way to bring it out is to have me try to explain a technical concept that I understand really well. I have the common problem in that situation of not being able to talk as fast as I think, but I also seem to have the ability to assemble words faster in a sort of tokenize/send to vocal cords sense once I know what I want to say.

To me, the fact that this does in fact seem to be bidirectional at least some is more interesting than that I can listen fast.

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Re:Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 b... by vanderZwan on Thursday September 05, 2019 @06:18AM (#20885328)

I kind of want to hear a "blind Danish" conversation now. For those unaware: Danish is phonetically one of the most difficult languages in the world, to the point where children who acquire Danish as their first language on average start speaking a few months later than children with any other first language. To clarify: speaking is not the same as understanding - toddlers are often capable of understanding language before they have the motor control required to speak it, which is why baby sign language exists.

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Re:Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 b... by tralarpa on Thursday September 05, 2019 @07:40AM (#20885687)

Actually, understanding seems to be affected, too! See:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-child-lan...

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Re:Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 b... by vanderZwan on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:09AM (#20886791)

Oh wow, did not know that! Then perhaps a better way to phrase it is that it does not imply slower general mental development of the children - at least that is what I read elsewhere.

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Re:Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 b... by tralarpa on Thursday September 05, 2019 @07:31AM (#20885642)

Are you Danish? (your account name looks rather Dutch)

I always wanted to know whether it's true what I heard some years ago: a friend told me that older Danish people are complaining that the younger Danish are harder to understand because there has been a trend in recent decades to swallow consonants even more than in the past

(that's something hard to image for me as a non-Danish speaker :)

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Re:Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 b... by vanderZwan on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:12AM (#20886814)

No, I'm Dutch like you guessed. While the Netherlands and Denmark are very similar in some aspects (flat countries obsessed with having the best bike infrastructure in the world) the language is quite different ;)

Living in Malmö I also find this quite hard to believe! Besides, isn't old people complaining about the younger generation butchering their language something that happens all the time in all cultures?

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Re:Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 b... by CRConrad on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:42PM (#20889084)

This is vague, because it was long ago, but I remember reading an article in a newspaper (Dagens Nyheter, Sweden, IIRC) in... Oh, the 1990s, I think.

It was about how Danish linguists were worried about how the language was getting more unintelligible. The example I remember was about the ever-increasing number of words that are pronounced, basically, “lää'e”: läkare, läge, läger, lager... Those are written in Swedish here; some Dane may translate. (In English: healer, situation, camp [laager], layer...) There were more that I don't remember; in all, I think they mentioned at least half a dozen words that had become basically indistinguishable from each other.

I don't think serious linguists have had the same fear about most other languages.

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Re:Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 b... by bluGill on Thursday September 05, 2019 @10:51AM (#20887262)

It is common for any "in-group" to speak faster than the same people in other groups. This is commonly studied in linguistic 101 courses by undergrads because it is so easy to observe - in your own groups - once you are looking for it.

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Re:Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 b... by CAMLORN on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:09PM (#20888091)

But when the in-group is defined as "is blind"?? I'm not just talking about programmers in this context, or any other cross-section wherein there's some sort of shared vocabulary and context other than the disability itself. I don't think it's been studied, but I've noticed, my parents have noticed, in general enough people around me have noticed it over the years that I'm convinced the effect is real. Is whatever mechanism you're referring to typically general enough that the group can be defined this broadly and still have it happen?

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Re:Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 b... by ahupp on Thursday September 05, 2019 @12:05AM (#20883761)

That's awesome. It reminds me of the Bynars in Star Trek, who evolved ultra-fast spoken language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52_iSQnB6W0

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Re:Human speech may have a universal transmission rate: 39 b... by modsiw on Friday September 06, 2019 @12:10PM (#20896906)

I don’t think this is a blind person thing. Ask any nerd about something they’re into, and you stand a pretty good chance of receiving a firehouse of words representing their steam of consciousness.

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