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Re:Android 10 by viraptor on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @06:05PM (#20871713)
If you've got friends who have time to complain about it, but not the time to move conversation to WhatsApp/FB/line/telegram/WeChat/...anything and prefer to exclude you, are they really friends? This honestly makes me angry when people say they're pressured into buying a high cost device.
Re:Android 10 by garysahota93 on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @06:41PM (#20872006)
I agree! Trust me, I was resentful for buying an iPhone too. They are my friend because we can't really move the conversation to any other platform. Some of my friends took #DeleteFacebook very seriously and deleted Insta/WhatsApp/FB while others refuse to download Line/WeChat/Telegram or any others because I'd be the only one they'd use that with. The network effect is bad and the only "standardized" communication platform that we all have is SMS. But because they are all iPhone users, it defaults to iMessage and they hate me for causing them to default to SMS/MMS because they see it as "slower and not as instant"... So other than emailing one another, there wasn't really any other options...
Re:Android 10 by viraptor on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @07:13PM (#20872308)
> because I'd be the only one they'd use that with

I started using hangouts, WhatsApp, signal, FB, and just yesterday line for a single person. This is really not a good excuse. People should be more important than tech.

Re:Android 10 by garysahota93 on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @07:46PM (#20872558)
Agreed. Unfortunately, many millennials don't see it that way. There's so many stories about the Green Bubble effect and how lazy people are to switch to anything else. It's sad.
Re:Android 10 by dkonofalski on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @07:06PM (#20872251)
>not the time to move conversation to WhatsApp/FB/line/telegram/WeChat/

None of these are an alternative to iMessage. They all either are missing key features or require you to deal with unencrypted communications or relayed encryption.

Re:Android 10 by viraptor on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @07:10PM (#20872287)
WhatsApp, signal, matrix has e2e. It's not an exhaustive list either - there are tons of solutions to choose from. What are the other key features?
Re:Android 10 by dkonofalski on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @07:22PM (#20872368)
WhatsApp, though, is still owned by Facebook and, therefore, has all kinds of privacy concerns. Last I heard, the encryption wasn't e2e and used a key that was generated by the app. If that's the case, then Facebook has a copy of that key.
Re:Android 10 by viraptor on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @07:39PM (#20872514)
The key has to be generated either in the app or on some server. There are no other choices really, unless you use only ephemeral keys - and that gives you secrecy but doesn't validate the other side. (And you can still copy that key) WhatsApp is e2e on all devices since 2016 and uses open whisper, which is the same encryption as signal.

Regarding the key - you have to trust the app it doesn't share it with the app authors. That's regardless of who/how implements the encryption. And it's true for iMessage as well.

Re:Android 10 by dkonofalski on Thursday September 05, 2019 @01:51PM (#20889167)
>it's true for iMessage as well

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that, according to the security white paper released by Apple, that the key is generated on-device in the Secure Enclave and that Apple never has access to it. The Enclave itself also doesn't have network access so there's no way for that to be transmitted anywhere by any other means except for physical access, which is also limited in the hardware.

Re:Android 10 by viraptor on Sunday September 08, 2019 @04:34PM (#20913243)
You still have to trust the app to use the secure enclave and not generate the key in standard code.
Re:Android 10 by dkonofalski on Monday September 09, 2019 @11:44AM (#20919208)
iMessage does that, though. This has been verified by the jailbreak community and the netsec community.