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Re:The growing science of memory manipulation by roenxi on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @07:33AM (#20865507)
> Imagine not being able to believe your own memory.

I'm not aware of any evidence that we can believe our own memories. Memory is much like eyesight. There is a very complex process going on to give you the illusion of a clear and consistent picture that is at odds with what the messy and biological process we rely on can actually achieve.

The basic problem is that people don't by and large scientifically assess their memories for accuracy, so they are reliant on other people alerting them to problems. The feedback process there doesn't encourage correctness, it encourages conformance.

Re:The growing science of memory manipulation by altcognito on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @09:06AM (#20866072)
This is what rationalization looks like. "Oh, well, memories are kinda inaccurate, so, it really doesn't matter if we modify them wholesale." Fairly dangerous rationalization.
Re:The growing science of memory manipulation by bilbo0s on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @09:41AM (#20866350)
Just Devil's Advocate, but I think it's fairly well established that human memories are not "kinda inaccurate", they are woefully inaccurate. Most of the time a human can get some of the big stuff right, but the neuro-psychological underpinnings of "attention" and "memory" pretty much guarantee we will miss a lot of what's going on. (And if we can put the human under enough stress, s/he will not even get the big stuff right.) The fact is, humans rarely even "see" what's actually in front of them, let alone have any "memory" of what was actually in front of them. (For us, reality is not reality, rather our perception is our reality.)

Now the memory being inaccurate to start with does not make manipulating that already inaccurate memory "ok". There's no question about that. Though having said that, it's important to note that because memories are so malleable and inaccurate, we've actually been manipulating them for a long time. It's actually a pretty well researched area.

I mean, this is not really new.

Re:The growing science of memory manipulation by ergothus on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @09:43AM (#20866362)
I agree that it is bad to embrace/shrug off memory manipulation with the rationalization that memory has always been reliable. [Edit: Unreliable]

It is also bad to ignore the evidence that memories are unreliable with or without memory manipulation.

We can acknowledge the weakness without using it as justification.

Re:The growing science of memory manipulation by jblwps on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @10:21AM (#20866693)
That sounds pretty level-headed to me. Acknowledging one's own fallibility/being humble in the face of one's own ignorance is broadly helpful. It seems it only becomes a problem when you start deeply distrusting yourself; you can never get away with wholly doubting yourself.
Re:The growing science of memory manipulation by ergothus on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @06:05PM (#20871710)
In my experience (I have a pretty TERRIBLE memory - people routinely reference events I participated in but have no recollection of, and when I consider if a particular believable event happened, I can imagine it and have no real way to distinguish the imagination from actual memory), the real problem comes with interacting with those that demonstrate full and utter confidence.

I doubt myself, but I still see the need to make decisions. Most people, faced with my caveats, allow that they can be wrong as well, and we decide things. But the problem cases are without any doubt - my caveats only prove their correctness. If presented with convincing evidence of their fault, they move on to the next thing and never learn that 100% confidence is overconfidence.

I don't know that my lack of trust in my memories makes me more vulnerable to such people or if they only react to facing others as immovable as themselves, with everyone else being indistinguishable speed bumps.

Re:The growing science of memory manipulation by sjg007 on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @10:47AM (#20866987)
We know memory is fallible. This hasn't stopped prosecutors from manipulating eye witness testimony in the pursuit of convictions over the truth.
Re:The growing science of memory manipulation by jblwps on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @10:18AM (#20866679)
> The basic problem is that people don't by and large scientifically assess their memories for accuracy

But wouldn't any practice of assessing one's own memories intermediately depend on memory faculties? I can quickly think of two dependencies:

1. Working memory (maybe this is tangential and not really on topic for long-term memory) 2. Semantic memories required to assess the legitimacy of a memory. E.g. if we were to shoot for "scientific assessments" like you said, then said assessment would rely on memories that allow for scientific assessment. I'm no scientist and don't know quite what such "scientific assessment" would look like in practice, but if you have an assessment framework you're deliberately working within, it seems like you'd have to at least have semantic memory/existing knowledge of that same framework.

Perhaps manipulation of episodic memory doesn't clearly pose such problems, but I expect that's neither here nor there.

Re:The growing science of memory manipulation by roenxi on Tuesday September 03, 2019 @10:57AM (#20867079)
Yeah, to really get in among the weeds and measure the inaccuracies is hopefully impossible. But it wouldn't be too hard to build up a high-level feel for how much big picture stuff you forget from keeping a journal & photographs, then blindly writing how you remember things playing out and comparing the two. More scientific than what most would bother with.

I came across some ancient IRC logs just yesterday that let me look back at a situation I thought I remembered. Turns out I did not remember it.