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Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by Taniwha on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @02:32PM (#20812988)
As I understand it (and even though I live in NZ I manufacture in China and ship all over the world from there) much of the airmail shipping from China is essentially founded on arbitrage of the empty space in air-mail shipping containers from Asia to the West - it's while it takes a while and sometimes your package goes out of Hong Kong, sometimes Singapore etc

In essence those packets are cheap because some smart person is buying up the empty space in containers that are already going and filling them - I assume that Air-Mail FROM the US could be equally cheap if someone was entrepreneurial enough to do the same there

Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by nwallin on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @05:21PM (#20814498)
That still doesn't explain why it's so cheap.

Planet money did a pod cast on it. Some guy selling some product could buy a Chinese knockoff of his product (including shipping) for cheaper than it costs him to ship his product from his local post office to his house in the same town. (excluding the cost of the product) Think about that. The product plus shipping across the world is cheaper than shipping across town.

https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/08/01/634737852/epis...

Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by Taniwha on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @05:31PM (#20814580)
I think it's because they are buying space that otherwise would be empty, and maintain an elastic buffer of packages to fill those spaces as they become available - the outgoing mail containers on planes are likely booked and paid for months in advance so the people paying for them will happily take 20% of their normal rate to fill the rest of them at the last minute
Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by nwallin on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @03:57PM (#20823471)
No, that's not the problem.

Here is the problem. I make a widget. It costs me $10 US to manufacture. I go to the post office, and ship it to an address directly across the street. They charge $7.

I go on AliExpress. I buy a similar widget, and ship it to the same address. The total cost, the item plus shipping, is $6.

Let's break that down. Their cost of manufacturing is lower. Let's say it's free. Ok fine. Trans Pacific shipping is cheap. Let's say it's free. Ok fine. They still have to ship it via the post office from the port in Long Beach to the post office in New Jersey; again, let's say that's free. The post office then has to deliver out across the street.

The post office charges me $7 to walk it it across the street. Why should the Chinese shipper only pay $6 for the same service?

Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by Scoundreller on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @06:15PM (#20814977)
That, and air freight only costs around $5/kg at regular rates.

The low-rate consolidators are kinda shameful by only bringing goods to the closest port to the origin, not the destination.

E.g. in Canada, they only bring it to the Vancouver port, while wealthier countries will pre-sort and air it to the closest intl mail port (Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver).

Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by Taniwha on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @07:24PM (#20815406)
this is a trade off between cost and speed of delivery - shipping out of China I have the choice of many different carriers - for example I can use cheap (and slowish) China Post, or faster and $6 more PostNL who will also give me tracking - I give my customers the cheap China Post for free and charge $6 for PostNL

(in the near future if US mail prices go up I may be forced to charge US customers more, I may also have to raise prices to US customers if I find that Trump's sanctions start to apply to small packages and I'm stuck paying from my end)

Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by shkkmo on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @06:47PM (#20815218)
Nope, the prices were dictated by the UPU, a global treaty organization that the US is part of.
Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by Taniwha on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @07:19PM (#20815371)
I think you're confusing "terminal dues" (which is what countries charge each other for delivering a package in the destination country) and the actual cost of shipping between countries (which is what I'm talking about here)
Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by shkkmo on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @08:58PM (#20815946)
Since you are responding to someone comparing US domestic (in town) shipping prices to international shipping price, I don't see how you are not talking about "terminal dues".

International freight costs could explain why international shipping is more expensive than domestic shipping, but even if international freight prices are 0, they can't explain why domestic shipping is more expensive than international shipping.

Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by nickserv on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @04:29PM (#20814123)
Don't know about air mail, but for maritime and rail transport, there is much more going from China to the EU or US than in the other direction by volume.

This means cargo carriers have to send back empty containers to China.

As a result, it's cheaper to book a container, from, say, Antwerp to Shanghai than the reverse. The difference can be quite substantial, potentially hundreds of USD per container.

For the other parts of the trip I don't have any hard info but I would think rail and truck is cheaper in China per km when converted to USD.

Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by DoctorOetker on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @02:20AM (#20817334)
>Don't know about air mail, but for maritime and rail transport, there is much more going from China to the EU or US than in the other direction by volume.

Where can I verify this? Thats looking at only the direct transport? Or also indirect transport?

Consider a hypothetical container from the US/EU going to Africa (bringing products, second hand goods, "recyclables", ...), then the container could pick up raw minerals and resources going to China, now theres an empty container in China and it has to go back to US/EU?

Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by nickserv on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @02:37AM (#20817425)
It's because the shipping containers belong to the shipping company, and are rented out for the trip.

So the shipping company will have a bunch of empty containers at the port of landing (destination), and needs to send them back to the port of departure to be filled again.

If trade between the two ports is balanced, then the containers will always be full regardless of the port of departure.

But since trade is not balanced, they wind up having to send empty containers on the "return" voyage. Which is pure loss for the shipping company, so they are willing to heavily discount routes that have empty containers transiting.

Which are these routes does change of course, but they are often those originating in the EU / US and arriving in Asia.

Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by londons_explore on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @03:30AM (#20817665)
If the containers were the only concern, they could be melted down and shipped back to China in a far more compact form.

Container manufacturing is very automated, so it can be very cheap to do so.

Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @02:22AM (#20817342)
It’s pretty much the result of our trade deficit. Not only does China export more than is, they export much lower value products on a volume/weight basis. Heck, a big USA export to China are airplanes that can simply be flown there.

China exports plenty to Africa, no need for such circuitous shipping patterns.

Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by DoctorOetker on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @11:00AM (#20820444)
China has a huge population, so material consumption (raw materials or finished products) for internal use in china, can bayesian catapult reasoning on value per volume/weight basis.
Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by seanmcdirmid on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @11:06AM (#20820503)
It could, but China has other more nearby trade partners for raw materials (Russia, Central Asia, Indonesia, Australia).
Re:No More Cheap Shipping for Chinese Sellers by Scoundreller on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @06:17PM (#20814999)
That’s all especially true now that we can’t send our “recyclables” in those empty containers.