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Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by jandrewrogers on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @11:37AM (#20810756)
I live in the city without a car but what you are suggesting is literally infeasible for most of the US, it goes far beyond "short term pain". There is no viable way to build usable, economical public transport for vast, low-density suburban sprawl. Blocking roads does not solve this obvious problem. The topology of most US infrastructure is designed in such a way that this conversion is not possible without demolishing and rebuilding thousands of square kilometers of existing infrastructure. That is a very expensive proposition.

Even if all new construction and city growth is optimized for not needing a car, and a significant fraction of it is, that doesn't change the reality that 300 million people live in areas where a car is an absolute and largely irreplaceable necessity because the existing infrastructure requires it.

Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by mywittyname on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @03:40PM (#20813664)
Small and medium cities aren't so much an issue. 400k people can easily live in a midwestern car-centric metro area. But once cities grow to from hundreds of thousands to millions, then they need to start being redeveloped with a car-free livestyle in mind.

Greater LA is home to nearly 20 million people. It's entirely feasible to create several car-free neighborhoods, each with more people than Omaha Nebraska. That's plenty enough people for transportation solutions to evolve organically.

Something to keep in mind is the existing suburban infrastructure is also unsustainably expensive. It's quite likely that many American suburbs will decay in the coming decades, a la Detroit, as poor residence can't supply enough tax dollars for maintenance.

Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by bscphil on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @05:30PM (#20824185)
> Greater LA is home to nearly 20 million people. It's entirely feasible to create several car-free neighborhoods, each with more people than Omaha Nebraska. That's plenty enough people for transportation solutions to evolve organically

I agree with your goals (car free cities), but I don't see this happening. Imagine a neighborhood goes car free - in LA, probably 75+% of people living in that neighborhood work in some other neighborhood. What are they supposed to do to get to work? Public transportation? It doesn't exist, or takes 4x as long as driving.

So we build public transportation up to allow for the massive increase in people using it in that neighborhood? Well, the neighborhoods they're trying to commute to still all use cars, and there's no room for that kind of increase in public transportation there.

So we need some kind of massive public infrastructure project to create the kind of city-wide transportation that's needed to enable this kind of shift? Well, sure. But that takes decades and billions of dollars. And that's if there's the political will to make this happen at all. I live in LA (and commute to another neighborhood to work via public transportation); honestly I don't see it happening.

Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by magduf on Thursday August 29, 2019 @01:06PM (#20831422)
If it takes you literally "decades" to build a train line, when the US back in the mid-1800s built railroads across the continent by hand, then maybe you should just give up and admit your country is hopelessly broken. Other countries don't take that long to build a few train lines.
Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by bscphil on Thursday August 29, 2019 @09:55PM (#20835363)
I agree with you! But the estimated time to complete just one of the extensions is running into the late 20s or even 30s!
Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by magduf on Friday August 30, 2019 @09:28AM (#20838349)
That's my point. It doesn't have to be that way. Other nations are able to build not just "extensions", but entire train lines, in much less time than that.
Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by lazyasciiart on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @03:06PM (#20813330)
So block roads in metro areas. Have park and rides on the outskirts. You can keep using your car to travel around the suburbs, you (and your 700,000 friends) just can't keep bringing it into the city every morning.
Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by usefulcat on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @11:50AM (#20810944)
I think it pretty much goes without saying that such a transition would need to occur gradually, probably over the course of decades if you ask me.
Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by magduf on Thursday August 29, 2019 @01:04PM (#20831407)
It's easy:

1) Stop building new roads, and stop improving existing ones. Stop worrying about traffic problems; if people don't like it, they can move somewhere else or start using public transit.

Maybe 1a) Convert some existing highways to toll roads. Use the funds for #2.

2) Use the money saved by not building or widening roads to build and operate more public transit: buses, and especially trains/subways. Give people a way to commute into the city for work without a car.

3) Fix zoning so that higher-density development is allowed, and can't be stopped by NIMBYs. Require mixed-use development where sensible (i.e., retail shops at ground level). Don't require a certain number of parking spaces, perhaps even add a tax for parking (lower for a garage maybe, higher for open lots).

Over time, the area will become denser. People will move closer to the city core, and want to get away from the congestion of the suburbs.

This stuff is perfectly doable, but only if there's the political will to do so. This country simple does not have the political will.

Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by grecy on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @11:48AM (#20810913)
Take the however-many billions of dollars each city is currently spending to build new (or bigger) freeways.

Spend that same money on buses instead.

Instead of millions of cars that carry 1 person to a max of 5, lets have thousands of buses that carry ~40-80 people.

In the years to come when there are less vehicles on the road, we can start closing roads, like Paris does (or did).

Or, you know, do absolutely nothing. Improve nothing. Move forward with nothing. Complain about everything, and every idea to improve stuff.

Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by goostavos on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @12:12PM (#20811226)
When the "ideas to improve stuff" stop being hopelessly naive, the critiques will surely lessen.
Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by grecy on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @12:17PM (#20811323)
Let's hear your idea then.

There are an awful lot of people nay-saying ideas to make stuff better and extraordinarily few people coming up with ideas to make stuff better.

What do you think will be the outcome of that?

Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by lawnchair_larry on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @09:24PM (#20816072)
“We must do something, X is something, therefore we must do X” is a logical fallacy. Doing nothing is better than doing something costly and ineffective (or worse).
Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by laughinghan on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @03:57PM (#20813832)
Every single one of those ideas have been proven workable in hundreds of cities around the world.

That comment even lists a city where they've been successful: Paris

Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by dsfyu404ed on Tuesday August 27, 2019 @05:00PM (#20814376)
Are there any cities that are actually building new or wider highways (not just improving interchanges/exits)? Seems like most cities have stopped building new highways.
Re:Let's build houses for people, not cars by magduf on Wednesday August 28, 2019 @03:14PM (#20823025)
Yes: DC. They're widening I-66, because too many people moved way out to the exurbs and commute into the city every day, taking 1-2 hours each way. So they're adding lanes on this highway, which will cause even more people to move out to the exurbs, and won't help at all. Meanwhile, they're refusing to extend the subway line out in that direction, even though a single train can carry hundreds of commuters at a time, and they'll all going the exact same direction.